Killer M44 tunic - found at the Max show

[overthetop]

I can not speak to the question of if the eagle is period applied or not. I do know for a 100% fact that not all factory sewn insignia used the same color thread for the bobbin as for the "top" thread. Maybe most do, but plenty do not. That statement applies to issue type garments and sewing.

I would say that almost rarely do private purchase applied insignia like officer collar tabs show that the same thread was used on both sides.

Agreed. I know a professional seamstress that tailored US officers uniforms ( am sure German tailors and seamstresses worked alike) and in her words, when changing top thread to match uniforms, if the lower thread color in the bobbin was close, it was never changed as it would not be normally seen. It takes time and work to change bobbin thread, so I wouldn't make too much of mismatching thread.

[Thomas Bendixen]

If I were to reapply an exotic eagle like this on a rare uniform, and have gone through the trouble finding the correct sewing thread I guess I would have used the correct color bobbing thread to.

Congrats on a nice uniform Sander


BR Thomas

[Glenn McInnes]

I disagree, I'm absolutly sure this is all original.

I was not attemping to come across as some sort of evil monster by casting doubts on your M-44 jacket and I hope that you do not think that but I think you should know the History with this one, so here it goes.

I saw this M-44 tunic 3 or 4 years ago...It had the factory sewn collar tabs still applied but the eagle was removed. If I remember correct the eagle was not sewn through the lining from the factory when it was manufactured,as not all of them were.(most were)

It had the eagle re-applied using threads that were a "close" match to those used in the jackets manufacture..A tan color thread for the front of the eagle and a dark green (to match the button hole thread) used on the reverse (the bobbin thread)

If you examine the attachment threads with a loupe and compare them to the thread used for the button holes and other parts of the jacket you will see what I mean.

A year or so later the collector who owned it consigned to a very reputable dealer with full disclosure as to what was done, and he correctly described it,as it is now.

http://virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=962



So there you have it and I figured this one would end up being sold as "all original" as it is very well done.



With regards

Glenn

[Glenn McInnes]

If it was post war sewn, wouldn't there be some sort of previous thread stitching or ghost image from the original?

From the M-44 tunics that I know of and have seen the vast majority of them had the eagle sewn through the lining at the time of manufacture,maybe it was just easier this way or they changed the process of how things were sewn (I have no idea)

But I have also seen a half dozen or so M-44's that the eagle was NOT sewn through the lining at the time of manufacture but rather they were applied before the lining was installed.

I am not sure what percentage were done this way as all we have to go by is what survived out of maybe tens of thousands that were produced. But surviving examples dictate that the vast majority of M-44's had the eagle sewn through the lining at the factory.

On the other side of the coin,the total opposite can be said for earlier tunics...But I have seen five or six M-42 tunics with 1942 dates that had the eagles sewn through the lining at the time of manufacture,there was no doubt that they were originally applied.

But the majority of M-42's that survived shows that the eagle was sewn before the linings went in,the total opposite of what you see on the M-44's.

Anyway,it is something to think about when examining such uniforms.





Glenn

[derka]

... I figured this one would end up being sold as "all original" as it is very well done.

With regards

Glenn

Unfortunatly, it happens very often...
derka

[Lenny W]

I was not attemping to come across as some sort of evil monster by casting doubts on your M-44 jacket and I hope that you do not think that but I think you should know the History with this one, so here it goes.

I saw this M-44 tunic 3 or 4 years ago...It had the factory sewn collar tabs still applied but the eagle was removed. If I remember correct the eagle was not sewn through the lining from the factory when it was manufactured,as not all of them were.(most were)

It had the eagle re-applied using threads that were a "close" match to those used in the jackets manufacture..A tan color thread for the front of the eagle and a dark green (to match the button hole thread) used on the reverse (the bobbin thread)

If you examine the attachment threads with a loupe and compare them to the thread used for the button holes and other parts of the jacket you will see what I mean.

A year or so later the collector who owned it consigned to a very reputable dealer with full disclosure as to what was done, and he correctly described it,as it is now.

http://virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=962



So there you have it and I figured this one would end up being sold as "all original" as it is very well done.



With regards

Glenn

Well done Glenn I wonder how much it went for at the show

[Maxoumilitaria]

A year or so later the collector who owned it consigned to a very reputable dealer with full disclosure as to what was done, and he correctly described it,as it is now.

http://virtualgrenadier.com/sale_item.php?iid=962

Nice memory to remember where that particular tunic went for sale. Thanks for the info !

[Glenn McInnes]

Nice memory to remember where that particular tunic went for sale. Thanks for the info !

I always keep a close eye on that website..


But considering the almost dead silence (crickets) since I posted my comments,maybe I should have just kept my big mouth shut.






Glenn

[derka]

I always keep a close eye on that website..
But considering the almost dead silence (crickets) since I posted my comments,maybe I should have just kept my big mouth shut.

Glenn

Certainly not Glenn.
In fact, there is not a lot more to say.
It is even possible that the seller to Sander vw thought in good faith that this eagle was period applied, except if it is him who bought directly this tunic to Mike Davis.
But at one stage, someone deliberatly lied for sure in purpose to fool.
On another hand, we all made mistakes, including me of course, and i can understand it is sometimes hard to swallow.
But at the end, the truth, despite unpleasant, is always better than a knowing silence.
Just my humble opinion, i have no dog in this race.
derka

[Maxoumilitaria]

But at the end, the truth, despite unpleasant, is always better than a knowing silence.

For sure !

[Hans Kristian]

Definitely not, it is the reason people presents and asks question here. And the truth is not always well tolerated.

Hans Kristian

I always keep a close eye on that website..


But considering the almost dead silence (crickets) since I posted my comments,maybe I should have just kept my big mouth shut.






Glenn

[Maxoumilitaria]

I disagree, I'm absolutly sure this is all original.

Makes one wonder about the value of "certainty"...

[Crusader17]

Always best to know the truth.

[nippo]

Always best to know the truth.

+1 certainly

[phild]

I always keep a close eye on that website..


But considering the almost dead silence (crickets) since I posted my comments,maybe I should have just kept my big mouth shut.



Glenn

I appreciate your post on this. A first hand knowledge is IMO the only way to know for sure in many cases when it comes to sewn and more so pin on insignia and that was my point on the thread about the M43 tunic last week.

I think that it is human nature that once you witness a "before and after" transformation that we can then say something like the thread is not 100% or the stitching is not quite right, but in truth none of us know what could be replaced in the insignia that we all agree is 100% right and I guess at that point it does not matter.

My feeling about this M44 was that there was nothing that looked like the eagle had to be period sewn (lack of previous holes was convincing, but as Glenn pointed out not always sewn through lining) but on the other hand no dead give aways that it was recent.....at least that I could see in the photo.