Heer Officer Tunic

[ferdiThePanzer]

its a very interesting tunic !

[Johnny R]

They stopped using the reserve officer shoulder board underlay around the time the War started in 1939 so that does not "fit". I will look up the name later today on the officer lists.

[NickG]

That would be awesome Johnny!
Hope the name matches the branch farbe on the collar tabs! (Cavalry?), so at least that could stay on it...
but agreed the shoulderboards make no sense...need to go!
The tunic sold in the mean time and I know the new owner who is not active on WAF....but I will advise him!
He wants to offer it to me in a trade for a hat...so if the officer listed on the tag has an interesting career + exciting branch farbe, perhaps!
So I would love to find out more!

[NickG]

Well it looks like this unifom is coming my way, negotiated a successful trade...(I will remove the reserve officer Hauptmann rank insignia)


In an effort to find out who this Lieutenant was, I searched the web yesterday PM and got a hit...

Found this on the internet... See attached...

Legion Azul connection? translator? liaison officer?


Trying to find a hit I came across a German book that talks about religion in the German armed forces during the war and it lists a "Benno Derda" who obviously was in that theatre (with this unit) and he commented that especially the Spanish Blue Division officers, especially the Doctors were very religious and therefor had a very good relationship with the Ukranian population (Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church 2nd biggest religion).
No mention of his rank or function but he was in contact with Spanish officers obviously (So you would assume he was also an officer) and surely there were plenty of German liaison officers in that unit and any Germans associated with that unit would have had to been officers in some sort of capacity as go-betweens with the German Command structure...

Maybe it's him? Benno Derda is a very uncommon name...and the uniform was tailored in 1943...and the Spanish legion existed though October 1943...
A long shot...I realize that... but who knows?

Thoughts? Good buy?
Btw would a German connected to Legion Azul have worn a Spanish legion shield I wonder? I know Germans in "Kroatien" did do that!

Once in hand I will check carefully for a shield ghost...It will need to be re-restored properly and the branch farbe is anybody's guess at this point...
If Leutnant Derda did serve in any capacity in the Spanish Legion, it would be a neat tunic... Maybe he was a translator? waffenfarbe? (but not a Sonderfuhrer)

Is there a list of German officers who served in the 250th Inf.Division?
Is a Leutnant Benno Derda listed? (circa March 1943)

(PS: got a PM, WAF member "Spanische Freiwillige" gave me the thumbs up and is already digging for me in Azul sources! Gracias Amigo!)

[PaulR]

None of the insignia appear to be "seated" into the wool as if they have been there for decades. The collar tabs actually appear to be loosely attached. My vote is that everything is original, but recently assembled.

[NickG]

Yes that is for sure Paul...incorrectly re-assembled post war using 100% original but mismatching parts...
The collar tabs are not aligned right with the top of the collar and the eagle sits too low...
and as already addressed the prewar reserve status shoulderboards are problematic with the '43 tailor tag date and farbe-wise
the boards don't match the collar tabs. It will all come off...
The uniform also lacks loops for a ribbon bar...that was simply collector added pierced through the tunic material...

It is still an interesting fixer-upper because of its condition and it is named to a field grade junior officer a plus as its possibly researchable
and possibly associated with an exotic Freiwilligen unit!
Hopefully that connection will be made...but its a long shot...I should have it in hand sometime next week. Stay tuned!

[NickG]

In the mean time I also discovered this:
Officer Benno Derda who is briefly mentioned in that book (from 1978) "Interkonfessionalismus in der deutschen Militärseelsorge von 1933 bis 1945"
is a first step...
and he commented about the Catholic Spaniards in the Spanish Legion getting along well with the religious Ukranian people ...

I now just discovered that this is actually a short excerpt (page in attachment shown earlier) taken from another (different) book called "Herr in Deine Hande" from 1963,
which also talks about "Seelsorge im Krieg". (Pastoral care in the war)
So he is definitely in there and his comments later briefly repeated in the 2nd book on the same topic (Religion in the German Army 1933-1945)!

I immediately ordered that book "Herr in Deine Hande" from Ebay Deutschland to see if it talks more about this officer, perhaps stating his unit and association
with the Spaniards...
I think it was worth the gamble.

I will keep you guys posted! 2nd attachment is the book I ordered that hopefully has more info on him and hopefully the unit is mentioned...
but definitely Russian front (Ukraine sector) where he was in contact with the Spanish Legion, witnessing their fraternization experiences with the local (religious) Ukrainian population)! At least we now know the theatre he was in!

More to follow!

I love a good mystery!

Nick

[Johnny R]

You have to match the name, the rank, and the date on the tunic to the unit, the assignments, and the book's author etc.

"Benno" is a common German nickname for Bernhard etc. and Derda is a German surname that is fairly common in the former German areas of Poland.

There are 20 or so Derdas listed as KIA meaning many more served in the Army. The tunic is dated 1943 and the Spanish (Army) unit was disbanded in October 1943 with most of them transferred to the SS if they continued to fight. From August 1942-October 1943 (when the unit was withdrawn), they were fighting on the northern front nowhere near Ukraine.

Good luck but do not put the cart in front of the horse which seems to happens very often in Frankenstein episodes.

[NickG]

Yeah I realized that also...Ukraine region deployment was earlier in the campaign before they got in trouble in the cold North in 1943 (Krazny Bor battles, Leningrad front, Leg.Azul)...
True about the nick-name, I did not give that any thought yes it is interesting that a nickname is used in a tailor tag... unless of course he was given this nickname as his official identity name... which would make it a perfect match, as that would be unusual narrowing it down to him!!
(My official first name btw is in fact also a nickname and listed as such on my passport...it did happen!)

[Johnny R]

It is very common to use shortened names in German such as "Wolf", "Fritz", "Gerd", "Willi", "Teo" etc. "Benno" is often also used for Benjamin. The proper names would be used on documents and official records, the common names on tailors labels and private items.

[NickG]

It is very common to use shortened names in German such as "Wolf", "Fritz", "Gerd", "Willi", "Teo" etc. "Benno" is often also used for Benjamin. The proper names would be used on documents and official records, the common names on tailors labels and private items.

Got it ! So Michael WIttmann's Tiger gunner "Balthasar Woll" could have had a tag in his wrapper uniform with the nick name used...so in his case "Bobby Woll"
but of course on his knights cross citation it would ready properly "Balthasar Woll".

[NickG]

Uniform arrived!
LOVE it, not just the condition but the tailoring, the vertical inside pocket is different, (usually horizontal!!!)
It has the nice deep scallops on the pocket flaps and the 90 degree pocket corners...otherwise often slightly round cornered...
it is different with this tailoring and of course the mint condition BENNO DERDA named tailor tag with mystery owner name...fun to research, makes it even more exciting!

Still hoping its related to an officer (German) who was assigned to the Blue Division, now that would be amazing...

Often interpreters were Lieutenants...on some Spanish sites (I read Spanish) it reads that interpreters wore standard white waffenfarbe, while attached the the Blue Division
or sometimes communications yellow (radio) color...

In many other units interpreters were often Sonderfuhrer (specialists with Admin insignia), not in the Spanish Legion!.
I will be putting a standard dark green backed eagle on it. The field gray backed one was very loosely stitched on over a ghost of the eagle and because it was taller,
the wreath partially covered the pocket flap... Now gone.
The replacement bird is shallower (less tall) and fits better covering the ghost area perfectly...with out overlapping the pocket flap too much! .

The collar tabs were put on aligned to the bottom of the collar...wrong!!! Always should be alligned with the TOP...often this mistake is made with restorations...
again very loosely stitched on... I will probably replace them with a crispy white farbe set as shown here...

The pre 1939 shoulder boards were only loosely stitched on in the outer corners...just sitting in the holes, basically unstitched...came off with no effort...
Again restored wrongly, applied wrongly and the wrong pre war "neben farbe" for a 1943 mid war 6 button tunic...

Easy to fix.
Second attachment is what's going on the tunic rank-wise! Lieutenant Infantry... but I will wait until I get that book in from Germany and hopefully it discloses more about this
Benno Derda officer and his branch...(infantry? communications..? if its even the same guy...)

There were 20 guys with the name Derda that were confirmed KIA....How many others were there and how many were officers? How many survived and
how many had the name Benno? (and no middle initial either)
Possible chance its the same officer, who commented in that book on the good relationship between the Spaniards and local religious Ukrainians ....
I believe it could be the same guy!

[NickG]

So I checked the sleeve carefully..am I imagining this? or is there really a ghost...exactly in the spot where a shield would sit..HOWEVER no stitching traces through the sleeve liner material...
Perhaps stitched on through the wool shell only?

[NickG]

Thoughts? More next week! Stay tuned and Johnny don't forget the popcorn!

[Johnny R]

If he was German I do not think he would wear the shield but you have better martinis in California then we do in the Midwest. You are cropping the book page as well. It says he reported that "the medical officers found that. . ." not that he was in the unit.