Your thoughts on this red-stitched Aufklarung Abteilung 3 Strap

[Tim O'Keefe]

On a different "note." The AA3 Bn when still with 3rd Pz Div adopted "Lili Marlene" in 1940 before the Blitz through France. When this unit was sent to Afrika in Feb '41 as part of the original DAK is when "Lili" was first heard world wide on the Belgrade radio station. No coincidence either.....becoming the DAK swan song

Most of the 8th Army versions are quite uncomplimentary and humorous

[afrikasandman]

Tim,

I agree this is an early strap that likely predates the unit head to Afrika. Great detailed info by the way. Matt

[Schulterklappen]

Lineage

Useful diagram in trying to understand which units could wear the "Schwedt Adler tradition badge" 1939-45,

Chris

Thank you for posting this; a very useful piece of information!

[90th Light]

Also thanks for posting Dal's very detailed account of how both gold & copper were used by both Recon Bn's. Agree both colors were used by both Bn's and even green & rosa besides gold or copper especially in mid/late '42 when cloth suppies were very hard to get.

One thing he does not mention is the possibillity that the Spah Co wore pink ? & the Krad Co's wore green ? & in the Schwere Co, red for the Art platoon ?, pink for the Pz Jg platoon ?, & black for the pioneer platoon ?
k

This has now been discussed in detail Tim,

however, there is no evidence that EM/ NCO's in A.A.3 wore any other colours in Afrika, than Kav. golden yellow and copper brown (in the years 1941 & 42). Of course the shortages of 1942, transfers and copper brown being phased out would have had an impact, but no one has a EM/ NCO tropical pink board in their collections that they can say beyond doubt came from A.A.3 in 1941 or the frst half of 1942.

The exception is officers who did wear both Kav.golden yellow and Pz. pink in Afrika.

Green, red and black do not seem to be possibilities at all for A.A.3.

The dark green board with pink piping which started this thread is probably from the period of time up to 1938. May be early 1939 ?

Chris

[MilitaryCollect]

hello,

there was a panzer kompanie assigned to aufklarung abteilung 3 (mot.). the strap came with the wp grouping. although this man did not go to afrika, his unit certainly did. might the men of this kompanie have worn pink in the beginning after their arrival in north afrika?

chris

[MilitaryCollect]

hello,

here is a photo of a man from this unit wearing a pink piped early wrap.

chris

[90th Light]

The top line reads "1.Pz.Sp.Komp" which is "1 Panzer Spah Kompanie" The bottom line is all about it being a replacement unit for the Recon. unit

This is one of the armored car company. I would have to look up the type of armored cars, 1 Komp. was using. Tim will know. No Panzers or tanks in A.A.3 at that stage of the war.

When A.A.3 arrived in Afrika in 1941, most of its members were wearing Kav golden yellow. However, the copper brown was making an appearance because we know of beyond doubt examples of caps dated 1940 in collections with copper-brown soutache. Thus some makers of caps were already aware of the change over to the new branch of service colour in 1940.

In early 1941 the majority of A.A.3 personal were wearing Kav. golden yellow with some copper-brown. By the end of 1941, a lot more copper brown was to be seen if not the majority. No pink and no real shortages at that stage i.e 1941,

Chris

p.s. A.A.3 wore pink as their branch of service colour up until 1938, even early 1939. Then they wore it again in 1943-45

[MilitaryCollect]

chris.,

thank you of the clarification.

chris

[Johnny R]

The stamp on the bottom is for the Ersatz-Abteilung für motorisierte Aufklärungseinheiten 3 which is a training and replacement battalion.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...lErsAbt3-R.htm

Before the war, the 1st Company of that battalion was focused on training soldiers using the light reconnaissance vehicles/armored vehicles- "Spahwagen" the 2nd company trained Kradschutz soldiers.

This unit is affiliated with AA 3 (mot), trained their new soldiers and replacements and shared the same Kaserne town but is not that same unit.

It was assimilated into Kradschutz Ersatz Btl. 4 in October 1941.

[90th Light]

I have photos on file of two interesting pieces with pink piping that originated in
Africa. They were picked up by Dal McGuirk in the 1970s from a former NZ Captain who had acquired them in Bardia in late November 1941. Dal feels that these fit in with the discussion on this thread.

Like me Dal has has also picked up a small number of pre-war Continental shoulder straps (and shoulder boards) that originated with Kiwi veterans in Africa. Dal told me he thinks these early straps like the one shown below may be personal unit "rememberance" souvenirs carried by German soldiers to North Africa.

Chris

[90th Light]

Dal obtained one officer board with pink wool backing and one prewar O/R strap, both with the "A" and "3", from a former NZ Captain in Divisional Cavalry in the 1980s. These were picked up by the captain in Bardia in November 1941,

Chris

[90th Light]

"AA3 was on organic unit, and in 1941 members had a mixture of gild yellow (older) and copper brown (newer) piping on sh/straps and caps".

The following images are a pair of gold yellow tunic straps from a New Zealand veteran that Dal McGuirk came across while looking at what other NZ collectors had found. This pair came from Libya, November 1941.

These are compared with a single board in Dal's collection which was also picked up from Libya at the end of 1941. This allows a comparison of gold yellow piping on tropical straps from 1941,

Chris

[90th Light]

What we know is that A.A.3 arrived in Libya in early 1941 with uniforms that had been manufactured in 1940. We can safely assume they used both yellow gold and copper brown piping on the uniforms. How do we know? Because beyond doubt, veteran brought-back field caps that are dated 1940 with both copper brown and gold yellow soutache. However, A.A.3 officers wore yellow gold and pink (copper brown ?).

A.A.33 in 15.Pz-Div. arrived in April with uniforms in the main manufactured in early 1941. It would seem that A.A.33 used mostly copper brown piped uniforms, if not entirely. The officers would have been wearing the gold yellow piped sh/boards transferred from their Continental uniforms (copper brown ?).

The majority of AA sh/boards collected by NZ'ers in Libya in November-December 1941 were copper brown, by a large majority. Gold yellow straps on the other hand are rare. The copper brown straps would have been from both A.A.3 and A.A.33, with no way today of determining which unit they could have been associated with in 1941.

The following images are two of my caps and a tropical shoulder board. I posted these on another thread but have used them here also because they nicely show what is stated above. Another point worth noting is that tropical side-caps with copper brown where found in the "Beehive find" dated 1942. However, there were no tropical side-caps with gold yellow soutache found. This is because they were no longer making tropical caps with gold yellow soutache in the first half of 1942,

Chris

[Schulterklappen]

T-Form

Dal obtained one officer board with pink wool backing and one prewar O/R strap, both with the "A" and "3", from a former NZ Captain in Divisional Cavalry in the 1980s. These were picked up by the captain in Bardia in November 1941,

Chris

Beautiful piece! I love it when the veterans would write notes on the back. The board looks like a T-form piece with the "wings" clipped. Interesting thought about them keeping the Rosa Waffenfarbe pieces as remembrance items.

[MilitaryCollect]

hello,

what a great thread ... and some gorgeous relics! i thank everyone. interesting that pink was worn in afrika by personnel from aa3.

i'll post some photos of the troops and their vehicles from this unit that came with the wehrpass and documents.

chris