Rare M 42 Bayonet Frog

[derspiess63]

hi Manny,

Obviousily I'm not saying mines definately original which is why I'm asking for opinions. Is there anything definitive that would make it a copy-wrong rivets,construction wrong, postwar czech etc?

Regards Jim

Hi Jim,
first of all I hope you've had a great Christmas!No...in my humble opinion there's anything at all that would definitely make your frog a copy, nor I'm dismissing it as such in the first place ....it's weave and rivets left me a bit skeptical at first, but I did consider later that after all they're ersatz items and that in such cases "alles isst moeglich"!
I must say that I do prefer Mike's and Bill's,but I must also admit that you're right when it comes to the weave!I don't know whether these frogs have been used post-war by other armies or not but one thing it's for sure;the copies scream "keep off" from the top of their lungs !
Live long and prosper
Manny

[djpool]

Djpool, Yours is most definately REAL.. BILL

hi Bill,

thanks for the vote of confidence.Yours is pretty neat too.Never seen one like that before. I have seen some like Mikes but never knew if they were production pieces or field made.Regards and have a Happy New year. Jim

[djpool]

Hi Jim,
first of all I hope you've had a great Christmas!No...in my humble opinion there's anything at all that would definitely make your frog a copy, nor I'm dismissing it as such in the first place ....it's weave and rivets left me a bit skeptical at first, but I did consider later that after all they're ersatz items and that in such cases "alles isst moeglich"!
I must say that I do prefer Mike's and Bill's,but I must also admit that you're right when it comes to the weave!I don't know whether these frogs have been used post-war by other armies or not but one thing it's for sure;the copies scream "keep off" from the top of their lungs !
Live long and prosper
Manny

Hi Manny,

I also hope you and your family had a great Christmas too. Sometimes the late war items are hard to assess. I've seen a lot of your late war pieces and despite the use of inferior or non standard materials one thing remained constant and that was the quality of the work. Yes shortcuts were taken to speed production and the items weren't as finished looking as they were early in the war, but the way things were put together still showed a relatively high level of skill.

You have a great New Year! Jim

[MGN]

Manny and Jim,
The pictures as promised. Guys have a Happy New Year!

[MGN]

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[MGN]

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[MGN]

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[derspiess63]

Hi Manny,

I also hope you and your family had a great Christmas too. Sometimes the late war items are hard to assess. I've seen a lot of your late war pieces and despite the use of inferior or non standard materials one thing remained constant and that was the quality of the work. Yes shortcuts were taken to speed production and the items weren't as finished looking as they were early in the war, but the way things were put together still showed a relatively high level of skill.

You have a great New Year! Jim

Hi Jim,
that sounds good enough to me bud;in fact I've checked a few "last-ditch" items I own and I must confess right here and now that, if it wasn't for the fact that I've been able to check them out in the flesh and ascertain typical WW2 German manufacture "standards", I'd more than happily have passed on them judging by pictures alone!
I rely on your guts and expertise and I'm sure that if you're confident on that frog I would be too !I like it in its whole mind you...and after my first post I've looked at the pictures several times and the more I look at them the more I agree with your last post....the one I'm replying to now, that is!
It's a pity to live so far apart for I'm sure we all could bolster our knowledge by looking at each other's collections......thanks God we've got camera.......and cell-phones
Live long and prosper and have a Great 2005!!!!!!
Manny

[billh]

frog

Hi - I think there's no question that your frog is legit. I've been lucky enough to own 2. Both came to me in the 80's and the provenance on each was convincing( at least to me ). One was a throw in on a purchase of a 44byf at Houston gun show, and the other came from a retired vet living in the mountains east of Albuquerque. Neither seller wanted more than the going price for a mounted frog at the time. Fakers back then were too busy building the "perfect sniper" to bother with an inexpensive frog. Bill

[djpool]

Hi Jim,
that sounds good enough to me bud;in fact I've checked a few "last-ditch" items I own and I must confess right here and now that, if it wasn't for the fact that I've been able to check them out in the flesh and ascertain typical WW2 German manufacture "standards", I'd more than happily have passed on them judging by pictures alone!
I rely on your guts and expertise and I'm sure that if you're confident on that frog I would be too !I like it in its whole mind you...and after my first post I've looked at the pictures several times and the more I look at them the more I agree with your last post....the one I'm replying to now, that is!
It's a pity to live so far apart for I'm sure we all could bolster our knowledge by looking at each other's collections......thanks God we've got camera.......and cell-phones
Live long and prosper and have a Great 2005!!!!!!
Manny

Hi Manny,

I agree the internet is the best thing thats happened to collecting. There are some outstanding collections out there including yours and without technology we would never get to see them. Now collectors from all corners of the world can share their knowledge and experience with others which is great. Its not perfect, pictures can be decieving but definately a step forward.

Of course even with the capability to garner worldwide opinions on items, there are always going to be differences of opinions about the authenticity of items. Every collector evaluates an item in a different way and forms an opinion based on whatever standard of authenticity they happen to use. Personally I appreciate all comments even if they differ from mine.

Rare items like the Heer Brandenburg Cts,sniper patches etc and erzatz items always seem to generate lots of discussion. The fakers have made us all skeptics and the lack of good references or conflicting references just muddy the water. But overall I think whenever someone shows an item on the forum they leave knowing its fake or real. A small percentage of pieces fall into "unknown category" leaving it up to the owner to make the final call pending more info.

As far as my bayonet frog is concerned,I'm comfortable at this point its good. Materials, quality, forum member comments and the one reference item coming from a good source tend to support that conclusion. Without further information to the contrary I think its a safe call.

Regards Jim

[derspiess63]

Hi Manny,

I agree the internet is the best thing thats happened to collecting. There are some outstanding collections out there including yours and without technology we would never get to see them. Now collectors from all corners of the world can share their knowledge and experience with others which is great. Its not perfect, pictures can be decieving but definately a step forward.

Of course even with the capability to garner worldwide opinions on items, there are always going to be differences of opinions about the authenticity of items. Every collector evaluates an item in a different way and forms an opinion based on whatever standard of authenticity they happen to use. Personally I appreciate all comments even if they differ from mine.

Rare items like the Heer Brandenburg Cts,sniper patches etc and erzatz items always seem to generate lots of discussion. The fakers have made us all skeptics and the lack of good references or conflicting references just muddy the water. But overall I think whenever someone shows an item on the forum they leave knowing its fake or real. A small percentage of pieces fall into "unknown category" leaving it up to the owner to make the final call pending more info.

As far as my bayonet frog is concerned,I'm comfortable at this point its good. Materials, quality, forum member comments and the one reference item coming from a good source tend to support that conclusion. Without further information to the contrary I think its a safe call.

Regards Jim

Amen to all you've said Jim !Please consider that I haven't thought for a moment that your frog was a repro(we all know where to look at !),I just had a few concerns which now are gone for good......thank to what you've said(I101% rely on your judgement and keep it in high esteem !) and to the fact that I've looked very closely at your pictures, even doctoring them a bit!I reckon that we are the ones who can make muddy waters crystal clear again........and fakers have no ground to play on with us;they can make whatever they want to but they'll never be able to 100% fake ageing and to duplicate the WW2 German standards in a way to get away with it fooling each and every one of use!
Live long and prosper
Manny