Heer Officers Trapazoid on Estand

[Fred Green]

Hello,

I would like your opinions on this piece of insignia. http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=771302 Thanks.

Fred

[Milton]

Gents, I've pulled this one down from the e-stand until I can further vet it. I will add the photos here for your reference sake. While certainly not a "factory" piece, I felt it might be a cottage (i.e. "theater" made piece due to its construction). Thanks for your feedback.

[CWP]

I've seen similar eagles described as Italian-made variants.

[Milton]

Hi Chris. Yes, those were my thoughts on this one as well. I once had a "doe-skin" wool type, Italian theater made officer's '43 with a very similar style trapezoid, that came from a friend via a direct vet purchase quite a number of years ago. Thx for commenting.

[mwliles]

Have you tried looking at the insignia under some strong UV light source? It reminds me of one of the copies that were sold back in the 1970's and gradually disappeared from circulation over the last 20 years. Not something for my collection.
Marion

[pauke]

trap

It reminds me of WW 2 Ltd. of St. Louis repro insignia from the 1960's though I could not say for certain.

[Milton]

No, haven't tried the black light trick on it. It was most definitely sewn to something at SOME point, however that proves nothing. It came to me in a mixed insignia lot, but reminded me of other period produced, theater made types I've seen in the past, which seemed similar in construction.

[Fred Green]

Hello,

I asked this eagle to be discussed because I believe it to be a post 1945 manufactured reproduction.

Mainly materials and construction bother me. I will discuss both.

First concern was the use of one type of bullion. Not a deal breaker by any means but a red flag to me. The design and execution of the eagle proper is good but the body, shoulders, head and eye resemble present day reproductions. No legs. While the eagle proper is executed well the highlights in black thread appear to be an after thought. No symmetry, loose sewing. While the bulk of the body is done in a tight, thick stitch, the swastika and wreath are done in almost an out line form with a single thread of bullion(swastika) and 2 threads of bullion (wreath). Here again a black thread has been put on the wreath almost as an after though.

Below this we have a very finely executed cocade of national colors in thread.. This bothers me also. I would tend to think that the cocade would also be executed in bullion also. The difference between the skill of the embroidery of the bullion and thread is apparent. That is why the black highlight thread sticks out to me. If you could embroider a cocade, you think that your highlights would be even more distinct and better executed.

The base material appears to be a cottonduck from the picture with a definite finished side. I don't care for the base material nor that it is hand cut and not die cut. The backside leaves me to be suspicious too. Is the checkerboard pattern under the black backing a stabilizing cloth or the backside of the base material.

CWP made the comment "I've seen similar eagles described as Italian made varients" I am not familiar with any Italian made variants manufactured like this eagle. I am very familiar with Italian made eagles as described in UNIFORMS AND TRADITIONS OF THE GERMAN ARMY 1933-1945" by Angolia and Schlicht, page 72. These eagles and others I have handled are usually finely hand embroidered in tight consistant stitching using cloth or metallic thread. Although they don't appeal to everybody's eye, they are much better crafted/manufactured than the eagle we are discussing. The only other Italian eagles I am familiar with are the ones that are stitched using single threads of bullion or thread and do not resemble german manufacturing techniques in the least.

Overall I don't like the eagle and do not believe that it is a pre1945 manufactured piece of insignia. This is why I called it up for discussion.

Fred

[RonR]

It reminds me of WW 2 Ltd. of St. Louis repro insignia from the 1960's though I could not say for certain.

Similar....


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[Fred Green]

It reminds me of WW 2 Ltd. of St. Louis repro insignia from the 1960's though I could not say for certain.

Ron,

Thank you. It was stated before but thanks for the picture.

Fred

[mah]

I have a few of the "ugly" Italian Eagles but this does not speak to me in any way.

I think that it's fake.

Max

[afrikasandman]

I have one on a tan backing with some corrosion to the bullion, I can post tomorrow. Matt

[Milton]

An interesting example Ron posted w/ the old advertisement. A close one...Main difference I can see right away is the thickness of the swastika & additional black thread details, but it's not far off.....! To be honest, it appears to be even better made than the one I posted. Thanks for the additional feedback!

[pauke]

trap

Yours is the "late war" version, thus the difference......

[Milton]

Yeah, that MUST be it!