Hi guys can you please tell me if these are real?? Thanks, Mark.
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Hard to tell...but since they have shiny tops I would say Luftwaffe Nachrichten signals....
with cyphers added to increase the value as Army Recon...a gamble but if the price is right, maybe?Last edited by NickG; 08-13-2014, 03:34 PM.Comment
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Mark,
The basic boards themselves are real, as are the cyphers and pips. Here is the problem - as Nick said the basic boards could be Luftwaffe Signal Oberleutnant with the Gothic "A" attached to make them into Heer Recon. This turns what would otherwise be a $50 pair of uninteresting boards into a sexy pair worth around $200+.
If they are Heer, they would be for a dress uniform such as a Waffenrock or Piped Field Service tunic.
Regardless, they are an attractive pair and if you don't have alot of money in them you're doing well as the cyphers themselves with nice gilding (like yours) and intact prongs are worth around $125.
I hope this helps.
vr
BobComment
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Recon Bds
Thanks guys. Yes very helpful, Mark.Comment
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recon boards
these are army recon boardsComment
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Would say they are LW signals boards. The cyphers look like they were attached recently, so souped-up.Comment
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These are early luft boards, no question about it. The gothic A and lip do appear to be recently added in my opinion. If the A cyphers are real then you have 30-50 bucks there. I have a pair like this that I think are good but its s matter of opinion. Heer officers did use these luft boards and what not on walking out tunics and parade tunics so it did happen. These are not correct though. MattComment
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recon
"And you are basing this on what? "
from the photos this is the darker cinnamon brown for heer recon as opposed to the lighter brown used for luft nachrichten. not presenting this as law, just my opinion based on my experience. not commenting on how long the metal cyphers/pips have been with the boards.
tComment
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copper brown
A few observations regarding "copper brown": to my knowledge the only positively unquestionable officer's tunic piped in copper brown is on display in the Munsterlager Panzer Museum. The piped tunic has wool piping which is a distinct "red"-brown and lacks the "A" on the shoulder boards as this is not needed with a color that is only for Aufklaerer. A recon officer wearing either pink or yellow-piped shoulder boards would need the "A" added to indicate his Aufklaerer status. As a "new" color with zero tradition behind it there was a distaste for the color according to conversations with an old well-known recon officer veteran who personally was told by Gen. Guderian that the color would not be adopted as the color for Aufklaerer. Obviously there was some use of the color in recon units as well as the standard bearer's patch made in in the color. Even though it does show up in NCO and EM rank shoulder straps I have never held in my hand an officer's shoulder board in "copper brown" that I am certain was exactly that and any boards in brown with "A"s on them are perhaps trying too hard to be recon brown. The only recon unit in Africa I am certain utilized "copper brown" was Pz. A.A. 33 and I have yet to find any evidence that the officers actually wore the color in Africa, especially since they were originally part of Kav. Regt. 6 and had the golden yellow tradition and the Schwedter Adler. The lower ranks in Pz.A.A. 33 did wear "copper brown". The color may be "rare" but in my candid opinion wearing a uniform piped in "turd" isn't sexy and it seems only the police used a brown piping prior to the Wehrmacht giving brown a try for Nachrichten/signals and at least dropping it for the army. Since "lemon yellow" had no prior military use (brown also no prior use) it was apparently acceptable for the army but would have been a problem for the Luftwaffe as they had the golden yellow of the cavalry for flight troops and needed a clearly different color for their signals branch and so utilized the early brown. The few early Heer signals straps I have piped in brown are the color of Luftwaffe signals brown. Bautruppen brown is a muddy topic and if only we could verify what was worn especially by officers it would be most instructive if not constructive. Any and all puns intended, thank you. The only reason for this post is to make you consider the history of the colors used in the German armed forces and think.
Do you know what "lemon" yellow. "golden" yellow and white signify in the current Bundeswehr?
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recon
"A few observations regarding "copper brown": to my knowledge the only positively unquestionable officer's tunic piped in copper brown is on display in the Munsterlager Panzer Museum. The piped tunic has wool piping which is a distinct "red"-brown and lacks the "A" on the shoulder boards as this is not needed with a color that is only for Aufklaerer. A recon officer wearing either pink or yellow-piped shoulder boards would need the "A" added to indic a ….."
[ (i excerpted rather than quote this well thought out and well-written post) which is certainly true and correct throughout. pauke has certainly done his homework
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dress uniform insignia in copper brown are certainly hens' teeth. they do exist. i owned a pair many years ago which bob edwards identified as not here recon. that said, if the owner of these boards wants to sell them please contact me with a pm.
thx
tComment
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correx to recon
should read "heer" instead of here. damn auto correct
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The shinny tops in my opinion make these Luft boards. That said I have PzGrn tunics that are untouched and they have the shinny topped Police boards sewn into the seams as the tunics were used for walking out purposes. Granted the Germans probably cared way less about the shinny or flat color of the boards like we do now... there was a war going on and all. MattOriginally posted by echoe View PostComment
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