Naval Cap tallys

[Richard]

What are the primary characteristics used in determining a fake cap tally from a real one? The only ones I have dealt with are the ones with "Kriegsmarine" on them. They all seem to be woven with metal thread. Was metal thread the only thing used in all cap tallys or did any wartime tallys use normal golden colored thread? I have been offered a tally that uses the same band material as any original I have seen and the weave appears correct. The only difference that I have noticed is that is is not a metal thread. Any opinions and comments are appreciated.
Richard V

[Gordon Williamson]

There were several types in use. The gilt metal thread types are the earliest. Due to their tendency to tarnish with age and exposure to salt air they were also made in yellow thread. This could be wool or cellulose thread. The wool is a matt yellow, and the cullulose thread is often very similar to the gilt wire but more yellowish, it is fairly stiff.

One thing you have to watch out for is that the postwar Bundesmarine used the gothic style script for the first couple of years before switching to block letters so these will look exactly like Kriegsmarine bands. In fact some of the bands listed as KM in Angolias book on KM uniforms are actually early Bundesmarine. The nomenclature on some was different - i.e. units organised poswat as "Geschwader" rather than the wartime "Flotille"

Then there are the obvious postwar fakes Bismarck, Tirpitz, Graf Zeppelin etc where originals were never made, and those such as Graf Spee, Scharhorst etc where originals do exist but the fakes fortunately are grammatically incorrect and use the wrong style letter "s" and are easy to identify. The difficult ones are those like "Prinz Eugen" for instance where there is no tell tale incorrect "s". There are slight errors in the letter form though so with an original for comparison its possible to tell them apart.

Gordon

[Charles_Rempe]

Gordan & Richard,
A recent purchase of an unissued Scharnhorst

Charles

[Richard]

Gentlemen, thanks very much for the replies. Charles, very nice tally. The seller has sent me a picture which I will post here for additional opinions. He has told me it does not glow under blacklight. Somewhat comforting, but I don't know if this is a sure sign. The tally reads "5. Schiffsstammabteilung 5."



Richard V

[Gordon Williamson]

Richard,

They are not faking these Schifsstammabteilung bands as far as I know, they aren't really of high enough value, the fakes tend to be of named ships. They did use these ribbons in the early "Gothic" Bundesmarine titles however, but may well have used left over stocks of Kriegsmarine titles- having no swastika or National Socialist imagery, and as the titles of these units remained unchanged, the chances are that it was old original stock that was issued - no need to remanufacture them. So I would say you should be safe with this one.

Gordon

[Richard]

Hello Gordon, thanks very much for your reply and the information. It is being offered at a reasonable price ($20 US) which spooked me at first. Now knowing they have no great value and are probably not faked, I'll be happy to pay the 20 and add it to my collection. Thanks again.
Best regards,
Richard

[Luc]

M G Wilhelm Gustloff

A friend of mine found this and he asked me more information about the band. I suppose it is a cap tally. Is this a rare one or a common one.

All information would be great.

thanks
Luc

[Luc]

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