Infantry Obergefreiter's M35 Dress Tunic

[misfit96]

Hello,

I have this M35 Officers tunic and was wondering if anyone can tell me more about it. What are the buttons on the shoulder that read "9"? I know the ribbon sewn in the third button loop is an EK II.

Thanks

Chris

Front.jpg
Back.jpg

[misfit96]

More Pics

Cuff.jpg

Shoulder.jpg

[misfit96]

Inside pics

Inside 1.jpg

P1050396.jpg

[Fred Green]

Hello,

You have a nice Obergefreiter of infantry Waffenrock. The #9 buttons tells you the soldier was in the 9th company. The shoulder boards appear to have had the regimental number picked out. The chevron on the sleeve is for the rank of obergefreiter. The Collar tabs, cuff bars and breast eagle are all issue pieces that are correct for this issue tunic.

Overall it has some stainage and wear but it is nice looking. I hope this helps.

Fred

[misfit96]

Thanks Fred, I appreciate it.

Does any one have a link to some pics with someone wearing the same tunic?

Thanks

Chris

[Hofstetter]

Thanks Fred, I appreciate it.

Does any one have a link to some pics with someone wearing the same tunic?

Thanks

Chris

Here's one

[Mark_K]

Here's five of them in a single photo! The pic shows a mix of NCOs (with tresse around the collars of their tunics) and enlisted men.

All the best,

Mark

[misfit96]

Thanks

Thanks for the photos! Much appreciated.

[Mark_K]

Hi Chris,

Nice tunic. As Fred says, it’s a waffenrock, the fanciest kind of tunic that soldiers had, worn for parades, ceremonial duties, and sometimes on leave. These tunics were made by private tailors (paid for by the soldiers themselves), or by manufacturers under contract to the army. The size stamps and the manufacturer’s stamp show that yours is one of the latter type, which are sometimes referred to by collectors as a “kammerrock” (standard issue) to differentiate from the tailor-made examples.

The “E36” stamp means this tunic was issued by the army clothing depot in Erfurt in 1936.

The maker mark, “Ligo Hannover” can also be found in a Coastal Artillerie tunic here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?p=4999337

There is a postwar police tunic that has an actual label for a maker with that name, though it is not possible to see any details of the location (like Hannover):

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?p=4125542

And an army tunic (re-tailored from an overcoat) here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?p=3639639

The name “Ligo” only seems to appear with Hannover-made tunics, so it would either be a specific manufacturer, or perhaps a Hannover variation on the term “Lago”. “Lago” was short for “Landesliefgenossenschaft”, which was a name given to a collective group of small businesses (and even individuals) who made things for the armed forces under contract. It was a form of sub-contracting.

You also have markings for the actual unit that the soldier served in (beginning with “Stab”, and finishing with “JR ???”, which actually stands for “Infanterie Regiment” (the “J” was a stylised letter ‘I’). The number after the JR should match the number that was originally stitched onto the shoulderboards. An order was circulated to unpick these numbers because they made it very easy for enemy intelligence and spies to identify regiments with minimum effort.

Hope this is useful. Enjoy owning the tunic!

Mark

[misfit96]

Thanks

Thank you very much Mark for the help! This was an amazing amount of information, and I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. This being my first tunic, it is quite exciting. The links you provided where great.

I tried to figure out the unit stamp on the inside, but it is quite difficult to read. To me it looks like "STAB II.1 JR 108 (or 103)" with a "1" printer underneath. It is hard to make out the number after STAB II. Pics are even harder to see it.

Thanks

Chris

[Mark_K]

Hi Chris,

Happy to help. I like waffenrocks, and have tried to find out as much as possible about them over the past few years.

It’s interesting that the unit info appears to be STAB II.1 JR 108 (or 103)". With infantry units, the information in these stamps tends to run in battalion and then regiment order, and ‘Stab’ in German means ‘Staff’. So your unit info may say ‘Staff battalion 2, Infantry Regiment 108’ or ‘103’. I have a feeling that number that is hard to read after the ‘Stab II’ may actually be an upright line, to separate the battalion number from the regiment number. Frequently, this would be an angled ‘slash’ mark, but you do sometimes see an upright line used.

There is a German website – Lexikon der Wehrmacht - that lists regiment histories. Looking at the history of Infantry Regiment 108 (http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...nter/IR108.htm) reveals that it was not formed until mid-1942, and I have a feeling that waffenrocks may no longer have been issued by that point in the war (though I could be wrong on that). Also, the practice of sewing numbers into shoulderboards was abandoned long before then, so it seems unlikely that the regiment’s number would ever have been embroidered into a shoulderboard. However, the history of Infantry Regiment 103 looks a lot more promising:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...nter/IR103.htm

It’s in German, but you can always paste it into something like Bing translator (http://www.bing.com/translator/) to get a rough translation of it. IR 103 was formed in 1935. It seems to have been a training regiment rather than an active ‘field’ regiment, and it seems to have been formed and re-formed a few times over the years. Its second battalion was even stationed for a time in Erfurt (nice and close to the clothing depot that issued your tunic!). However, Stab battalion II only had companies numbered between 5 and 8. Now, your tunic has a ‘9’ button on its shoulderboard, indicating the 9th company, and there was a 9th company of the third ‘Stab’ battalion of Infantry Regiment 103 formed in 1937.

The single Roman numeral under the unit info indicates the quality and designation of the tunic, according to army regulations. Grade I tunics were for parade wear and also wearing on Sundays (a soldier’s ‘Sunday best’ outfit, if you like). Grade II could be worn for guard duty and for general wear on days of the week other than Sunday.

All the best,

Mark

[misfit96]

Hey Mark,

Thanks again for the help, lots of great information.

I re-checked the stamp on the inside using a better magnify glass, but there are only two numbers after STAB before the period. You are correct about the number after STAB II. being hard to read. It very well could be a vertical line. I could not make anything else out clearly except it does look like JR. 103.

The shoulder boards do have signs that there was once something attached that has been removed. So at one time it had a unit number on them.

I checked the site and since the tunic was issued in 1936 and the unit was going through various changes, is it possible that the 9th Company was originally in STAB II, maybe right before STAB III was created in 1937? Or did they create the 9th company right when they created STAB III? Or, could they have issued it in during the transition?

This brings up even more questions....

Thanks

Chris

[CWP]

If the soldier was in a Bataillon headquarters like Stab II. or Stab III., the shoulder strap buttons would have had corresponding Roman numerals. Perhaps the original owner of this tunic transferred to 9. Kompanie at some point.

[pauke]

marking

I see "Stab III" as the marking in the tunic so the 9th company button fits just fine.

[Mark_K]

Hi Chris,

It's fascinating to try and figure out the histories of these tunics! I think Chris Pittman has probably solved the mystery. It is quite possible that a guy in Stab II battalion could have transferred into the 9th company, possibly at the time when Stab III and the additional companies were added to Infantry Regiment 103. And Chris mentions something that I had forgotten: soldiers who were in staff battalions would indeed have had shoulderboard buttons with Roman numerals like I, II, III, rather than 1, 2, 3. So it is likely that your tunic once had a button with 'II' on it (or 'III' if Pauke is right).

And of course, a soldier from Stab II battalion in Infantry Regiment 103 could have transferred to the 9th company in a completely different infantry regiment, which would have prompted the unpicking of the regiment number on his shoulderboards, and the addition of the '9' button. Just a guess, but it's perfectly possible. But whatever the case was, it looks like the guy was in Stab II battalion of Infantry Regiment 103 when he was issued this tunic, and he kept it long enough to have to unpick the number from its boards. It's a shame there's no name tag in the tunic, sometimes it's possible to trace an individual soldier.

If only these things could talk! They can't, so they leave the talking to us.

It's a nice tunic, and I hope you enjoy owning it.

All the best,

Mark