shoulder boards tropical question

[vizenz]

Naxos and I started a thread about the guy who is most likely making these boards. He is getting more talented. I cannot remember the different names he uses. He is involved with the costume department of a State theater in Germany. Derka may know who he is as well. He has being doing this for years.

The problem is, I see a lot of his boards in collections, and no one believes me if I say, I know who has made this boards, and they are fakes!
You can buy some of his "artworks" for a lot of money at grenadiermilitaryantiques.com if you like

[madandi]

Or from "Der Afrikaheld". he sold them in ebay with his other nickname.

[afrikasandman]

Naxos and I started a thread about the guy who is most likely making these boards. He is getting more talented. I cannot remember the different names he uses. He is involved with the costume department of a State theater in Germany. Derka may know who he is as well. He has being doing this for years.

Can you post the link? I know PVL had several boards that he was selling that were nearly identical to these. In fact didn't he sell the Machine gun set? He also had a set for Afrika flak (white pipped boards). These are probably the top reproductions out there and they are scary good. Matt

[Tim O'Keefe]

Guys,
this straps are fakes, produced in Germany.
Some years ago, all few month were a pair of such boards on German ebay for auction. I copied some of this auction pics, but only a limited number with devices. There were also a number of this boards without devices or numbers.
I think this is now the second lap, when some collectors start to resell this stuff after years. The original source was very doubtful.
The piping and the tresses were original material, that's the reason because some collectors believe in this straps. Most of the boards had green piping, but a number of red piped boards also exist.

Don't waste your money!

Best regards,
Andreas

Hi Andreas

What material is used for the backing.of these fakes ?

[Tim O'Keefe]

The problem is, I see a lot of his boards in collections, and no one believes me if I say, I know who has made this boards, and they are fakes!
You can buy some of his "artworks" for a lot of money at grenadiermilitaryantiques.com if you like

None are backed with wool ? All have the same or similar material as the threadstarter ? If so these fakes have been around for some years now. Just the cyphers alone send up a red flag for me....along with the buttonholes etc

[Fritz]

None are backed with wool ? All have the same or similar material as the threadstarter ? If so these fakes have been around for some years now. Just the cyphers alone send up a red flag for me....along with the buttonholes etc

Correct. Then there was a "hoard" found about one or two years ago which incl. ss straps. Those "hoard" straps looked different compared to what is the topic of this thread.

I have never encountered the "thread starter" on any website of one of the bigger dealers - as far as I can remember. They were readily available on ebay though with all sorts of cyphers and what have you.



I have visited the grenadiermilitaryantiques website and have only managed to find one single strap..?


Cheers

[Johnny R]

Can you post the link? I know PVL had several boards that he was selling that were nearly identical to these. In fact didn't he sell the Machine gun set? He also had a set for Afrika flak (white pipped boards). These are probably the top reproductions out there and they are scary good. Matt

Not sure about PvL as I did not see those but this is one of the threads and there is another large drawn out thread on piped tabs for wraps which he also was selling and they ended up on Dealer sites as real.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=495952

He/They are reassembling original materials and making new boards and very rare collar tabs etc.

Some older ones-

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=334384


http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ight=Hassinger

[90th Light]

Correct. Then there was a "hoard" found about one or two years ago which incl. ss straps. Those "hoard" straps looked different compared to what is the topic of this thread.

I have never encountered the "thread starter" on any website of one of the bigger dealers - as far as I can remember. They were readily available on ebay though with all sorts of cyphers and what have you.

I have visited the grenadiermilitaryantiques website and have only managed to find one single strap..?

Cheers

That is correct Fritz,

a lot of the tropical straps from that shop hoard were later model tropical straps for the tunic. The ones I saw were still pin together by a shop stock/ price tag in matching pairs.

and yes there were a lot of original matching pairs of SS straps also found at that time,

Chris

[90th Light]

This thread has the potential to become very interesting. The discussion about the latest generation a fake tropical straps is both useful and necessary, given what such trop. shoulder boards sell for these days.

As I have already stated, I have no problem that the boards which started this thread are fake. If thats what they are then that is what they are.

The point I have wanted to get across is that there is some perfectly original tropical items made from this type of "cotton duck" material. It would appear that "NZ Mark" and myself both have veteran brought back examples of such tropical shoulder straps. Mine came on a tropical Kradmantel also made from the same material.

In my opinion the rank stripe shown in post number 21 is original and may-be intended for a Kradmantel made of that same material.

There are also other rare tropical items made of this type of tightly woven cotton duck as the trop. M40 billed cap in NZ Mark's collection pictured below proves,

Chris

[NZMark]

Ahhh,
My Aussie 'Lubstein'....
Certainly a different material for use - very heavy and stiff - almost a canvas grade...
Mark.
New Zealand

[vizenz]

At this point, here are some different discussions crossing.

We spoke about the "German state theater guy", he is making single fakes of high quality with partial original material. That's the boards that can be found in some well sorted collections.

The tropical board fakes, @madandi is right, are from another person. They are turning up in series. The first and second series I can remember were very simple to recognize. The later stuff from the last years is getting better and better. The "tropical" straps I showed are exist with fieldgrey and brown wool backside. And this is not the only fake stuff he is selling. With every series of tropical straps, are also a new collection of SS straps turns up.

The third discussion is, did tropical boards in a special type for the (cloth) Kradmantel exist? I'm collecting only shoulder boards (and some cloth insignia), and I'm very focused on this theme. I saw a lot of non-described stuff over the years, boards made from leather, from drillich cloth, or white garbadine, but I never saw a doubtless board made from tropical Kradmantel cloth. That's not an evidence in any case, but if some of these boards exist, they must be fieldmade examples, or only a very very small number of this boards were produced and delivered. Has someone of the DAK collectors ever seen a board/s like this from a vet bringback? Or has one in his collection which we can take a look on?

Best regards,
Andreas

[90th Light]

At this point, here are some different discussions crossing.

We spoke about the "German state theater guy", he is making single fakes of high quality with partial original material. That's the boards that can be found in some well sorted collections.

The tropical board fakes, @madandi is right, are from another person. They are turning up in series. The first and second series I can remember were very simple to recognize. The later stuff from the last years is getting better and better. The "tropical" straps I showed are exist with fieldgrey and brown wool backside. And this is not the only fake stuff he is selling. With every series of tropical straps, are also a new collection of SS straps turns up.

The third discussion is, did tropical boards in a special type for the (cloth) Kradmantel exist? I'm collecting only shoulder boards (and some cloth insignia), and I'm very focused on this theme. I saw a lot of non-described stuff over the years, boards made from leather, from drillich cloth, or white garbadine, but I never saw a doubtless board made from tropical Kradmantel cloth. That's not an evidence in any case, but if some of these boards exist, they must be fieldmade examples, or only a very very small number of this boards were produced and delivered. Has someone of the DAK collectors ever seen a board/s like this from a vet bringback? Or has one in his collection which we can take a look on?

Best regards,
Andreas

Hello Andreas,

the "shop hoard" to which I referred to in post number was a find of original straps made before May 1945 and not part of any "first series" or "second series" to which you refer to above. May be I have misunderstood Fritz on that point;

That is correct Fritz,

a lot of the tropical straps from that shop hoard were later model tropical straps for the tunic. The ones I saw were still pin together by a shop stock/ price tag in matching pairs.

and yes there were a lot of original matching pairs of SS straps also found at that time,

Chris

Given the response to this thread, it certainly does appear that any original tropical items made from "tropical Kradmantel cloth" are very rare. I do not know however, think that they are field made for example NZ Mark's tropical billed m40 is made and marked by a well known manufacturer. As I have already stated, the use of that type of cloth was in no way official by any stretch of the imagination either,

Chris

[Fritz]

May be I have misunderstood Fritz on that point;

Chris:

The hoard that I was referring to were fakes IMO, the hoard consisted of DAK (tropical) and SS straps.

Cheers

[90th Light]

Chris:

The hoard that I was referring to were fakes IMO, the hoard consisted of DAK (tropical) and SS straps.

Cheers

Thanks Fritz,

I realise now that we were talking at cross purposes. But so there is no confusion, did any of the tropical boards in the hoard or hoards that you know of still have the price tags or stock tags holding the pair of straps together ? (There was some hand written figures on the tags.)

Better still, do you have any photos of the boards that you could add here ?

The hoard that I know of was a tailor shop stock of original items and many of the pairs of boards still had tags hold the pairs of boards together,

Chris

[Fritz]

did any of the tropical boards in the hoard or hoards that you know of still have the price tags or stock tags holding the pair of straps together ?

No, they were just pairs - not held together by anything as far as I can remember. All were mint and they were all over german ebay. As I said that was about 1 or 2 years ago and included a number of ss straps (mint).

I have not kept any photos but I suspect someone here did. If so, please post them.

Cheers