Tropical tunic 1st Pattern.

[NCO]

Mike,
If I was you I would restore it with original insignia where it needs to be, it may take some time but will look better than is at the moment.
Having said that, knowing you its best you get rid of it altogether and find something untouched , the dollars will follow that kind easily though be prepared.
TAll this of-course all depends if it was priced accordingly, hope you got it a good price.
Good luck,
cheers
nco

[panzer nco]

99.9% junk gave me nightmares

Correct Lenny most of it was Junk, But i pulled out some nice pieces out of that room that i know are 100% original, I was one of the first ones in there so i had the pick of the room..

Just because the majority was crap, You IMO should not write off everything.

The prices i payed for the items i bought was Far cheaper than what you would expect to pay off any dealer or private collector !!!!


That's why i persisted to sift throught the crap !! Other wise i would not have bothered !!!!

I am not an Expert on Insignia thats why i posted it, But i did like the tunic when i seen it.

It could be restored to how it should be, But its not really one for me to be honest, so i might sell it. & wait for a proper one.

Mike.

[panzer nco]

Because i am not very good with Insigina, I would appriciate it if some more experenced collectors Mark, Tim ect ect would let me know what they dont like about the Eagle & the Cuff band.

I am Eager as ever to know & learn more about tropical Insigina !!!


Best Mike..

[NZMark]

Hi Mike,
No problem. The sleeve-band is the post-war copy seen frequently on tunics that never had them to 'enhance' the value. A quick look in the search engine for 'AFRIKAKORPS' sleeve bands will give you all the information you'll ever need to spot a post-war example but it's the weave and fonts that give it away, even with some added 'distressing' to age it. The eagle is a copy of the cap pattern. The faker mistakenly put too few feathers on either side of the birds body - four instead of five. This alone is it's greatest flaw, but not the only one. The eagle looks OK from a distance and had previously been described as 'a late war variant'. Nope.
I'll find some images if I can and add them, but I'm certain Jerry, Tim or Fred can explain it better than I
Take Care,
Mark
New Zealand

[msteve21]

Hi Mike,
No problem. The sleeve-band is the post-war copy seen frequently on tunics that never had them to 'enhance' the value. A quick look in the search engine for 'AFRIKAKORPS' sleeve bands will give you all the information you'll ever need to spot a post-war example but it's the weave and fonts that give it away, even with some added 'distressing' to age it. The eagle is a copy of the cap pattern. The faker mistakenly put too few feathers on either side of the birds body - four instead of five. This alone is it's greatest flaw, but not the only one. The eagle looks OK from a distance and had previously been described as 'a late war variant'. Nope.
Mark
New Zealand

Agree


Excellent example of original eagles on this link
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=665592

With cuff titles allways check the letter o on the reverse, it's one of the main giveaways. when you do your search you will see examples of what to watch out for

Mark S

[Tim O'Keefe]

Because i am not very good with Insigina, I would appriciate it if some more experenced collectors Mark, Tim ect ect would let me know what they dont like about the Eagle & the Cuff band.

I am Eager as ever to know & learn more about tropical Insigina !!!


Best Mike..

Hi Mike

As Mark has stated the Eagle is a common modern copy of the cap version with four feathers. I believe that the faker copied a cap eagle and used that as his model for the tunic version (which should have five feathers instead.)

As far as the fake "tartan weave" AKCT. This version is most common and is from Pakistan in the 70's. From the reverse the "O" will appear to have a diamond center, and the letter stitching resembles a tartan weave hence the name. Also from the front the arms in the letter "F" are much longer than on originals...

Here is another fake AKCT.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Here is an original early AKCT. Notice the length of the arms in the "F", and the shape of the hole in the"O" & the letter stitching from the reverse.....

Cheers
Tim

[panzer nco]

Hi Guys

Thanks for posting the Pics Tim. I do see the difference in the F !! I cant see the front of the O thoe BUT i will pull out my reference books.
Does anyone have a Eagle to post & explain the Feathers, I have counted more than 4 on mine..

On second thoughts with the Tunic, I am going to keep it & restore it..

It would be nice to have a original Non Restored one thoe !!!!



Thanks for all your help again !!!! Mike..

[Tim O'Keefe]

Here is another look at the original. The diamond shaped hole in the "O" is much more noticable from the reverse than the front. The original is more oval.

Also notice the skull's nose hole, compared to your example. If a tk's nose hole is round, generally thats not a good sign, But at least one maker did feature this trait.

[90th Light]

Here is another look at the original. The diamond shaped hole in the "O" is much more noticable from the reverse than the front. The original is more oval.

Also notice the skull's nose hole, compared to your example. If a tk's nose hole is round, generally thats not a good sign, But at least one maker did feature this trait.

Hello Tim,

there is more than one original panzer skull made before May 1945 that has a round nose hole. Only certain makers have a triangle nose hole. One can not decide if the skull is good or bad on the shape of the nose hole alone, other indicators also need to be considered.

Also where did you learn that the fake Afrikakorps cufftitles were made in "Pakistan in the 70's" ? I had always understood that they were made in Germany. Initially I thought they were made for DAK veteran reunions ???

Chris

[NZMark]

Sorry Mike,
I wasn't accurate in my description
Here are the four horizontal wing bars - there should be five. But as I said, there are other 'tells' that this is a fake, the feather detail being the most blatant.
Regards,
Mark
New Zealand

[Tim O'Keefe]

Agree there are more factors then just the nose hole in determining a tk's originality, but many fakes share this trait.

The tartan weave fake AKCT originally from Pakistan (70's) has been known for many years. Have not heard of any AKCT for the DAK reunions.....

[90th Light]

Agree there are more factors then just the nose hole in determining a tk's originality, but many fakes share this trait.

The tartan weave fake AKCT originally from Pakistan (70's) has been known for many years. Have not heard of any AKCT for the DAK reunions.....

Well Tim, here is a bit of history from one of the administrators about it

"Ade,
I was always lead to believe that this style of "Afrika" cuff title was for the veterans association ...... I am probably wrong, ... but personally I would never touch this type ...
Gary J.[/QUOTE] "


"Hi Gary, that is the "story" that I have heard too. I do not know if there is any truth to it to be honest? (Rather like the "bookmark SS cuff titles" which have a similar story attatched to them, made for Vets reunions etc.)

Like you say, they are different to the original WW2 examples and have burnt many people for many years. They are well made that is part of the problem. Good advice Gary, I would urge anyone to buy "textbook" only when it comes to the "Afrikakorps" cuff title.
Cheers, Ade. "


You can read more here on the thread about it http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...itles+reunions

In the early days of WAF there were other threads about the fake "Afrikakorps" CT's from Germany. One in particular was from Detlev Niemann who always said Germany. I never ever heard Pakistan mentioned in the 1980's so what evidence has emerged today to support that ???

Interested to learn,

Chris

[panzer nco]

Sorry Mike,
I wasn't accurate in my description
Here are the four horizontal wing bars - there should be five. But as I said, there are other 'tells' that this is a fake, the feather detail being the most blatant.
Regards,
Mark
New Zealand

Hi Mark

Thanks For pointing that out !!


I know that now, I will replace it with a original eagle & a new set of boards & remove the cuff band !!

We previously spoke about the NCO tress & the collar tabs, They are stated to be original but reapplied. I am going to keep them where they are. Any opions on that ??

Mike..

[Tim O'Keefe]

"Hi Gary, that is the "story" that I have heard too. I do not know if there is any truth to it to be honest? (Rather like the "bookmark SS cuff titles" which have a similar story attatched to them, made for Vets reunions etc.)

Like you say, they are different to the original WW2 examples and have burnt many people for many years. They are well made that is part of the problem. Good advice Gary, I would urge anyone to buy "textbook" only when it comes to the "Afrikakorps" cuff title.
Cheers, Ade. "

You can read more here on the thread about it http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...itles+reunions

In the early days of WAF there were other threads about the fake "Afrikakorps" CT's from Germany. One in particular was from Detlev Niemann who always said Germany. I never ever heard Pakistan mentioned in the 1980's so what evidence has emerged today to support that ???

Interested to learn,

Chris[/QUOTE]

Hi Chris

Interesting story. Its possible, and could be proven by looking at photos of various Post War DAK Vet gatherings and see of any of these "tartan" fakes are found in the photos ?

The story i got years ago, was that these first appeared in the States in the 70's and were thought to come from Pakistan. The bullion Afrika ct was also
thought to be from the same source ?

I have learned alot from Ade and would listen to his advice. ''When it comes to AKCT's would urge everyone to buy textbook."

& Mike thats the right approach imo.