Tropical heer tunic - doctor

[Mike Davis]

I'd like to see that one, Billbert
CHEERS!
Mark
New Zealand

So would I. Another member here has such an example.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Tim,
Thanks , It should be up over the next two days.
Should I start a new thread on Photos and Paper Items Forum or on the existing?
Cheers
nco

Cheers NCO
A new thread in the Photos & Paper Forum would be the best
Really great opportunity to see these photos from the 361 Pz Gr in detail. Look forwards to it.

& Billbert
Would like to see that tunic also

thanks
Tim

[Johnny R]

Did you tropical guys ever look for the DRK MIA books? They are full of portrait photos like this as well. For DAK units many of the shots are of wool uniforms but there are a lot of Tropical clothing images as well. There are great for seeing variation in wool clothing and caps etc. as well.

http://www.gaentzsch.com/vermisste-i...ste/index.php4

[OSS]

Simple - as you should easily understand - so as to correct the completely erronious 'collectors term' "m41". How many collectors use the German terminology in general internet conversation? Few, in reality.
Regards,
Mark
New Zealand.

I see your point and am asking (again) will you be calling them M-41s "so as to correct the completely erronious 'collectors term' M-42". Perhaps both references are, as you say, silly as their original purpose, a shorthand to differentiate between variations, has already been defeated it would seem.

[Johnny R]

To me "pattern" is better and reflects the probable reality of it. I do not think it was ever something used during the time of manufacturing. There probably were just "phasing out" periods leading to overlap of styles.

[OSS]

I own a last pattern 4 pocket tropical tunic in the standard tropical color with factory applied continental eagle and tabs...Billbert

By last pattern I imagine you mean the so-called "Sudfront" tunic, which has the mouse grey continental insignia more often than not.

[OSS]

To me "pattern" is better and reflects the probable reality of it. I do not think it was ever something used during the time of manufacturing. There probably were just "phasing out" periods leading to overlap of styles.

Agreed, to the Germans these were all one basic tunic with modifications.

[NZMark]

I see your point and am asking (again) will you be calling them M-41s "so as to correct the completely erronious 'collectors term' M-42". Perhaps both references are, as you say, silly as their original purpose, a shorthand to differentiate between variations, has already been defeated it would seem.

OSS - Your question was answered way back in post #68, I believe.
I certainly agree with your last sentence, though!
I'm not certain about the 'phasing out' point, though...it took them three years to 'phase out' 2nd pattern tropical tunic production from multiple manufacturers? I've owned several tunics from each year and these aren't just used up pocket flap stocks on later produced tunics...
Regards,
Mark
New Zealand

[OSS]

OSS - Your question was answered way back in post #68, I believe.
I certainly agree with your last sentence, though!
Regards,
Mark
New Zealand

Yes you told me how silly it would be to call a tunic M-anything and then went on to say how important it was to use the term M-40 for field caps "TO CORRECT THE COMPLETELY ERRONEOUS 'COLLECTOR'S TERM 'M-41". I was simply wondering why it was important for caps but not for tunics as collectors have used the term M-42 for many years (possibly many years before you started collecting). I was simply wondering why you would miss this opportunity to correct this longstanding "erroneous collector's term".

[NZMark]

Yes you told me how silly it would be to call a tunic M-anything and then went on to say how important it was to use the term M-40 for field caps "TO CORRECT THE COMPLETELY ERRONEOUS 'COLLECTOR'S TERM 'M-41". I was simply wondering why it was important for caps but not for tunics as collectors have used the term M-42 for many years (possibly many years before you started collecting). I was simply wondering why you would miss this opportunity to correct this longstanding "erroneous collector's term".

...and again, I answered that question earlier too?
If collector's will insist (as you did) that caps are less correctly called 'm41's then the term 'm40' is just fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned if it means the community apreciates a tad more accuracy, Ramsey. Using cap designations and applying them to tunics may easily confuse some, it seems....? I'd better not do that (Hang on a second...I don't!) Maybe it would be better to use the term 'pattern' for caps, too?
I also agree with you - I have no doubt that mis-information was floating around before I started collecting in the 1970's!
Regards,
Mark
New Zealand

[OSS]

...and again, I answered that question earlier too?
If collector's will insist (as you did) that caps are less correctly called 'm41's then the term 'm40' is just fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned if it means the community apreciates a tad more accuracy, Ramsey. Using cap designations and applying them to tunics may easily confuse some, it seems....? I'd better not do that (Hang on a second...I don't!) Maybe it would be better to use the term 'pattern' for caps, too?
I also agree with you - I have no doubt that mis-information was floating around before I started collecting in the 1970's!
Regards,
Mark
New Zealand

I should apologize for making light of your appreciation for accuracy in nomenclature and terminology. I was truly surprised to see a pleatless tunic marked '41, and it is certainly an interesting oddity if nothing else (as the vast majority are dated '42). At any rate, I respect your enthusiasm for and knowledge of German tropical uniforms and equipment and appreciate your contributions here on the Forum.

[NZMark]

And I yours, Sir!
With Respect,
Mark
New Zealand

[90th Light]

...and again, I answered that question earlier too?
If collector's will insist (as you did) that caps are less correctly called 'm41's then the term 'm40' is just fine and dandy as far as I'm concerned if it means the community apreciates a tad more accuracy, Ramsey. Using cap designations and applying them to tunics may easily confuse some, it seems....? I'd better not do that (Hang on a second...I don't!) Maybe it would be better to use the term 'pattern' for caps, too?
I also agree with you - I have no doubt that mis-information was floating around before I started collecting in the 1970's!
Regards,
Mark
New Zealand

Hello Mark,

may I suggest in the 21st Century, for the billed tropical caps we adopt;


"M40" for the "Feldmutz mit Schrim (Trop)" with or without soutache and no sweatband


"M40 n.A." for the "Feldmutz mit Schrim (Trop) neuer Art " without soutache but with a sweatband


I suppose, this leaves the challenge of how we classify the tropical sidecaps. The use of "n.A." for "neuer Art" would however, give it a nice German connection and solve the problem.

I have to say that I may have had my critics on this thread, plus it has taken several twists and turns. What has come out of it however, has proved to be both interesting and useful.

That is what it is all about, discussing this stuff in some depth so we all become a little wiser and better informed.

I am pleased that I ask "why" in post number 13 ( lucky 13 ? ) because "why" and to "keep asking why" is the greatest question anyone who wants to master a subject can ask.
Chris

[NCO]

Hi Guy's

As requested the photo album of Emil Kuhlmann's company is posted on the Photo's and Paper Items Forum.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=659197

Cheers

nco

[NZMark]

Chris,
Not certain this would work...how do we 'classify' all five types of afrikamutze? (Not including factory produced officer's m40's?)
But this is another discussion for another thread
Regards,
Mark