Panzer Collection-Be Careful

[The Other Brian]

I for one don't want to see this thread closed. A degree of controversy is often essential, even if it offends a few.

This hobby is rotten at it's core and caveat emptor is the rule. The hobby has more than it's fair share of rogues and scoundrels and sociopaths. The more newbies, particularly with more cash than brains that can be given early insight into how badly rotten thus hobby is the better. I would never advise someone to collect this stuff. It is not worth it on several levels.

I suspect the manner in which Richard's estate was divided/sold would provide for some very interesting reading.

[Historyisme]

The majority of you know nothing of Wraps I am sure, and it is disgusting how you insult a well respected dealer and a Gentleman of a collector Richard P. Shame on the lot of you.

I have decided I will no longer post on this forum. I regret my decision to buy membership.

Patrick

[OSS]

The majority of you know nothing of Wraps I am sure, and it is disgusting how you insult a well respected dealer and a Gentleman of a collector Richard P. Shame on the lot of you.

I have decided I will no longer post on this forum. I regret my decision to buy membership.

Patrick

This thread is about the pitfalls and financial peril which is part and parcel of collecting III Reich militaria. If that subject is of no interest to you, you have subscribed to the wrong forum.

[jacquesf]

This thread is about the pitfalls and financial peril which is part and parcel of collecting III Reich militaria. If that subject is of no interest to you, you have subscribed to the wrong forum.

I agree with this. Personally I thought it was handled well by Glenn. If items appear that are fake they should be highlighted. Jacques

[DonC]

Here's my proposal - take it or leave it as you will: Remove any reference to Richard P ever having owned these items, remove all the sniping and rude/crude comments, and pin the threads at the top of the uniforms and cap sections as informational posts and warnings. I think people should have the opportunity to remain aware that these items will more than likely surface again, perhaps multiple times. Who owned them when is irrelevant.

Don

[Adam S.]

I think it is good that the moderators still step in once in a while and don't remove themselves completely from 'watch duty.' They have a certain set of interests and knowledge that they can watch out for as well as other regular members.

And I have also had a lot of good deals with Bruce and have found him to be very agreeable. I can't imagine how much time went into writing those descriptions though! wow.

[Rene Chavez]

IMO this issue has nothing to do with Richard p (RIP) but the items in question.

Rene Chavez
www.foreignvolunteerlegion.com

[rob NL]

The majority of you know nothing of Wraps I am sure, and it is disgusting how you insult a well respected dealer and a Gentleman of a collector Richard P. Shame on the lot of you.

I have decided I will no longer post on this forum. I regret my decision to buy membership.

Patrick

No offense, but you also give advice about where to buy and where not. Who to avoid and who is honest in his dealings.
Glenn is doing the same, and that's a good thing.

[WEISNER]

I applaud Glenn for letting the community know about these questionable items, no matter where they came from or who they are currently for sale with!

bottom line is if the items were for sale on a site with the prior owner unknown, 99% of the members would be thanking Glenn for pointing them out!

Kev

[ccnrecon]

One of the wraps offered was a stug wrap for a general. Was that one a fantasy piece or does there exist an original example or period photos of such a garment in wear? Black generals wraps are around but I have never seen or heard of a generals stug wrap.

[FESTUNGBREST]

I'd like to reiterate the following because it seems unclear to a member or two:

1. The deceased collector nor his reputation were never in question. There were no "sniping comments" ever directed at his persona. The discussion is mostly directed at dealer ethics, as most have understood.

2. The intervention / opinion of moderators is most welcome when something is blatantly suspect.

Thank you.

[Jock Auld]

Guys,

I think this is a classic example of how no plan survives contact!

This was a straightforward warning about dodgey gear which has gone a bit wrong but none the less raises interesting points.

Post 3 is a good point and I am sure that the vendor IS a stand up guy (post 45 & 46) and agreeable (post 82) as most salesmen are but none the less wrong and with my knowledge of wraps called into question (post 78),for the record, chicken tika is best, Bobs thoughts are that they will find homes with the appropriate baggage revealed (post 45) at the correct price, surely only for re-enactors or the like?

Sorry post 46 'don't wash' at that level people do not expect to be taken to the cleaners, 'stand up' or not, you know when you have written the cheque you can't cash and if you don't then you need to reconsider your position, fine on estand for a few bob but not Ks and Ks.

Going back to post 3 if the attitude of post 23 is observed (polititions answer: ie non statement) then the result is post 13 in which case Mr Pavel Nowak should also buy a banner at the bottom of the page and ultimately we have post 29 where credibility is in question.

Post 20 has an eye on disposal, which with the verdict of these forums, is very important and should be noted as at some point this gear will resurface and acceptance of what has been bought is very important, as Bob has said in other posts though it won't matter to him as it will pass to his family, much like this gear?!

Post 49 by Mr willi Z states items speek for themselves, this is true but only to the enlightened and that is what us lesser folk and the youth seek to be but are often at pains to find out in plain speech. That said I stand by 'Tika' as that is about as much as I will learn on here about wraps.

Glenn clearly done the correct thing and is able to back it up, although at times I would disagree with Glenns post 21 para 2 as if 'they' have the lack of knowledge but the funds avalable then perhaps just now and again they deserve the item!

Jock

[Johnny R]

I didn't know him. If he was as controversial a figure as everyone has indicated, perhaps this is his "parting" contribution to this forum and this hobby......as he is laughing his @ss off at the entire conversation.

He was not controversial figure in a negative way, he was well informed and a very nice guy but had his own opinions of what was original that differed at times from others. He was assertive about his views and would stand his ground which I respected even when I did not think he was correct.

I think Don C is correct and many of the nice original items he had went somewhere else. He had some wonderful items in his collection that were not on the dealer site. He had an amazing collection of flight helmets and goggles as well, a whole room full.

The items for sale above I saw to me look exactly like things that were being offered by people like Wolfram Deibel and Norbert Graetz 20 years ago. Maybe this is where they came from. These are the types of items that now with time have become "real" in some people's eyes and being from "old collections" etc.

[Willi Z.]

He was not controversial figure in a negative way, he was well informed and a very nice guy but had his own opinions of what was original that differed at times from others. He was assertive about his views and would stand his ground which I respected even when I did not think he was correct.

I think Don C is correct and many of the nice original items he had went somewhere else. He had some wonderful items in his collection that were not on the dealer site. He had an amazing collection of flight helmets and goggles as well, a whole room full.

The items for sale above I saw to me look exactly like things that were being offered by people like Wolfram Deibel and Norbert Graetz 20 years ago. Maybe this is where they came from. These are the types of items that now with time have become "real" in some people's eyes and being from "old collections" etc.

Once again, a very thoughtful and on target summary.

Ah, N&T Global. Located 1.5 hrs from me. A website filled with the rarest FJ helmets, winter camo SS helmets, SS wraps, GD wraps, HG wraps, Heer wraps, field gear....things people would spend a lifetime of collecting to gather......and all just a click away!

[DonC]

I have always wondered what ever happened to Norbert. Apparently he still has some people's money and other people's uniforms that he had on consignment when he went "poof".

Don