The rarest recon waffenfarbe there is

[Tim O'Keefe]

Your list of sub-units within the Reconnaissance Battalion begs the question(s): Would the Pionier platoon wear black Waffenfarbe and by the same token would the Infanterie Geschutz platoon wear lime green (or white) and would the Panzer Jaeger platoon wear pink Waffenfarbe? Or, would all troops within this Aufklarungs unit wear copper brown (or golden yellow/pink)?

If originally part of the 10th Recon Bn, (or any Recon Bn) all wore copper/brown or gold /yellow etc. But if they were cross-attached from other units then the mixture of piping could result. The cooks, AFV recovery and paymasters etc (not just the Pz crewmen) in a Pz Regt all wore rosa waffenfarbe and the cooks, paymasters etc in a Inf Regt would wear white etc.

P/s Units such as SV288 being an exception, each Co. wore its own waffenfarbe in this elite unit.

[brooksbz]

another

eine andere

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=ss+recon

I am re-reading Paul Carell's book's on the eastern front . Those troops were busy. Given that the priority was on getting ammo, fuel and food to the front, that keeping their should stripe piping sraight was the last thing on their minds as there units were cut down from division, kampfgruppen to fragments.

[OSS]

One thing this thread has done is to cause me to rethink my assumptions about brown Waffenfarbe. I had previously assumed that the apparant subtle differences in hue within the spectrum of brown Waffenfarbe were due primarily to the inconsistancy of dye lots. I now am convinced, as others have been, that these are two distinct colors (Waffenfarbe); copper brown (Kupferbraun) and light brown (Hellbraun). Kupferbraun, which has an appearence not unlike terra cotta was specified for certain Aufklarungs units early in the war until it was discontinued in 1943. I also have come to believe that Bau Truppen were assigned a separate but similar color, Hellbraun which has a more grayish shade. Like greens and blues they are not always easy to distinguish. I believe that the examples 90th Light pesented to open the thread are all examples of "Kupferbraun" and as such were issued to Recon personnel. Several of the examples that I introduced are also distinctly copper brown. I suggest that this pair is "Kupferbraun" for Aufklarungs:

[OSS]

While this pair ( and the numbered slides) is light brown for Bau Truppen:

[derka]

I agree with OSS comments in #123 and 124, Kupferbraun and Hellbraun were 2 dictinctive colors.
I already exposed in another thread :
"Kupferbraun was officialy adopted for Kradschützenbataillone der Pz.Divisionen und Mot.Divisionen october 28th, 1941 (A.H.M. 1941, n° 1069).
This reg is for units OB acording T.E.G. from september 15th, 1941.
Those units should have only the bataillone n° on shoulder straps.
In marsh 1943, (A.H.M. 1943, n°309, marsh 25 th 1943), all Panzeraufklarung groups should wear Rosa waffenfarbe, with a gothic "A" and unit number.
Initialy, during summer 1939, Kupferbraun was the waffenfarbe for those specific units (gothic "A"+ unit n° on shoulder straps), and Wiesengrün was for Schützenregimenter (with n° of the Rgt on shoulder straps) and a gothic "K" + unit n° for Kradschützenbataillone.
Finaly, Wiesengrün was given to Panzergrenadiere Rgt in july 1942.
Before summer 1939, Kradschützenbataillone had Rosa waffenfarbe with a gothic "k".
Other auffklarung units (not in Pz.div. and Mot.Div.) had goldgelb waffenfarbe.
As far i know, the "K" was never worn with Kupferbraun piping.
This color was also used for nachrichtentruppen before spring 1936."

derka

[NickG]

What about this set which I recently obtained via estand?
The waffenfarbe looks just like LW nachrichten, cinnamon brown ... but the boards are sub-dued Heer versions....
Are they early copper brown (Kupferbraun) Kradschutzen, sometimes explained as recon?
or light brown (Hellbraun) Bau independent construction Battalions??

Compare with Johnny's example in post 50. Would be a rare Waffenfarbe, right?
I plan to put these on my rubberized Kradmantel. Would that be appropriate?

[jacquesf]

Nick, I saw those and missed out to you. Good eye, got a bargain, rare waffenfarbe, especially officer. There were two shades for krad, yours and the one shown above by oss. It is not Bau imoJ

[Waffenreich]

Nick,

I would look at those boards very carefully. To me they reek of Heer subdued plaiting applied to Luftwaffe Nachrichten officer boards. The plaiting looks very sloppily assembled, unevenly applied side-to-side, sloppily positioned at the button hole ends, and the bottoms where the plaiting is tucked in looks really strange. Also, if you look at your pictures along the sides of the plaiting on each board you'll see almost a saw-tooth pricking effect. If this in fact appears in-hand that is due to some amateur trying to secure the plaiting using a whip stitch and pulling too tight sideways on the plaiting to get it tight on to the board.

I'm willing to bet if you pulled up on the sides of the plaiting you'll probably find some amateurish sewing job.

Not trying to pooh on what may be a totally legit pair of boards, but I have handled a mother f... load of officer boards and I do not get a warm fuzzy at all from these. If they were Infantry or Artillery I'd be suspicious, but a rare farbe like this - doubly suspicious.

JMO

Bob

What about this set which I recently obtained via estand?
The waffenfarbe looks just like LW nachrichten, cinnamon brown ... but the boards are sub-dued Heer versions....
Are they early copper brown (Kupferbraun) Kradschutzen, sometimes explained as recon?
or light brown (Hellbraun) Bau independent construction Battalions??

Compare with Johnny's example in post 50. Would be a rare Waffenfarbe, right?
I plan to put these on my rubberized Kradmantel. Would that be appropriate?

[NickG]

Thanks for the warning Bob...so "re-plated" LW nachrichten (SIgnals) is a possibility?
Here some more shots!

[NickG]

The inner core is attached with the same color thread as the waffenfarbe... which is identical to the thread used for the assembly
of the tongues... (I paid $50 delivered, so to me worth the gamble...I did not pay a true Kradschutzen price!
So not monkeyed around with for profit!

[NickG]

Last set...yes some lack of symmetry but I have seen that before...
I don't know if it is an automatic red flag or not...but with this waffenfarbe I guess you have to be careful!
Thanks for the warning. I will let the additional images do the talking!

[Waffenreich]

Appreciate you posting the extra pics Nick.

I have to say they look a little more convincing in the last pic you posted, but I'm still not a total believer. As we all know even the most rudimentary piece of German insignia was produced to a very high standard to start with and of course wear takes its toll. These don't appear to show the degree of wear that would cause them to shrink/distort etc..

In any case, I think the price you paid certainly makes it worth the gamble and in the long run if your gut feeling tells you their OK then that's all that counts (if we were talking about an RK or pair of GFM boards that would be a different story). When you get your Kradmantel set-up throw a few pics on here please. I always thought that is a classic looking set-up (next to a Feldgendarmerie with gorget).

Good hunting!

Bob

[afrikasandman]

Nick,

they look like recon boards to me. I wanted those but they were already on hold once I found the sales thread. You did well on the set, even if it turned out to be luft signal. Id be happy with them for $50 bucks either way. Matt

[NickG]

Agreed Matt...worth the gamble!

When you get your Kradmantel set-up throw a few pics on here please. I always thought that is a classic looking set-up (next to a Feldgendarmerie with gorget).

Good hunting!

Bob

Here you go Bob!

[jacquesf]

Wow, nice display. Nick. J