The rarest recon waffenfarbe there is

[naxos]

Nice dog tag

[Tim O'Keefe]

The two DAK Recon Bn's each had three Co. A Spah Co. a Krad Co, and a Hv weapons Co, of three platoons, Eng, PzJg, & Mortors. Also there was an HQ platoon.

And the 15th Motorcycle Bn assigned to the15th Pz Div in early '41 had 3 Krad Co and a MG Co. also a Hv weapons Co of three platoons, Eng, PzJg & mortors. So both units were similar in organization, but distinct. Both had Krad units with different piping.

In theory the piping in these units would go to the Company level. But in reality anything close would do...

[90th Light]

The two DAK Recon Bn's each had three Co. A Spah Co. a Krad Co, and a Hv weapons Co, of three platoons, Eng, PzJg, & Mortors. Also there was an HQ platoon.

And the 15th Motorcycle Bn assigned to the15th Pz Div in early '41 had 3 Krad Co and a MG Co. also a Hv weapons Co of three platoons, Eng, PzJg & mortors. So both units were similar in organization, but distinct. Both had Krad units with different piping.

In theory the piping in these units would go to the Company level. But in reality anything close would do...

Thanks Tim,

so no Pz. Spah. Kompanie in the 15th Krad. Schn. Abteilungen ?

Chris

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thanks Tim,

so no Pz. Spah. Kompanie in the 15th Krad. Schn. Abteilungen ?

Chris

No, this unit was almost wiped out in an ambush in May '41. It was never really the same after that. Eventually survivors joining the 3rd Bn 104th Mot Rifle Regt in Oct '41. It wore green waffenfarbe.

The 10th Motorcycle Bn, 10th Pz Div, Tunisia did have two Spah platoons (attached) to the Hv weapons Co, as well as two motorcycle Co's and two PzGn Co's.

I believe we have seen the 10th Krad on that video from Tunisia, the one with the Spah crews wearing black wraps with yellow piping and tropical tunics with the black Pz tabs w/tk's ?

[90th Light]

the 10th motorcycle bn, 10th pz div, tunisia did have two spah platoons (attached) to the hv weapons co, as well as two motorcycle co's and two pzgn co's.

I believe we have seen the 10th krad on that video from tunisia, the one with the spah crews wearing black wraps with yellow piping and tropical tunics with the black pz tabs w/tk's ?

1

[90th Light]

the 10th motorcycle bn, 10th pz div, tunisia did have two spah platoons (attached) to the hv weapons co, as well as two motorcycle co's and two pzgn co's.

I believe we have seen the 10th krad on that video from tunisia, the one with the spah crews wearing black wraps with yellow piping and tropical tunics with the black pz tabs w/tk's ?

2

[90th Light]

the 10th motorcycle bn, 10th pz div, tunisia did have two spah platoons (attached) to the hv weapons co, as well as two motorcycle co's and two pzgn co's.

I believe we have seen the 10th krad on that video from tunisia, the one with the spah crews wearing black wraps with yellow piping and tropical tunics with the black pz tabs w/tk's ?

3

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thanks Chris, this is the set of pics i referred to in my previous post. Quite clearly you can see the black Pz tabs w/tk's on the first pattern tropical tunics.

[NZMark]

...or perhaps grey? The contrast between the twill of the tunic and the tabs is quite similar and not as definitive as I'd expect to see in grey-scale...
Although a much more faded/bleached tunic, this original photo I have may make a comparison...
Great Thread!
Mark

[Tim O'Keefe]

Yes Mark your right. Great photo ! This bit of video has 10th Pz Div Afrikaners with tropical 1st pattern tunics with both black and also grey tabs, some with tk's and some without. There is also a shorter version in color where the black tabs w/tk's and yellow piping is clearly shown. The 10th Pz Div wore the continental tabs over the tropical tunic unlike the DAK.

One of the problems is that the Krad Bn's and Recon Bn's had the same function. (hence confusion) Eventually the Krad Bn's were phased out and the Recon Bn's were strengthened to be a combined arms team with a platoon of STGIII's etc. To be able to "fight" for info, unlike the Allied Recon that was lighter armed in the more traditional recon role.

[90th Light]

...or perhaps grey? The contrast between the twill of the tunic and the tabs is quite similar and not as definitive as I'd expect to see in grey-scale...
Although a much more faded/bleached tunic, this original photo I have may make a comparison...
Great Thread!
Mark

In my opinion Mark,

the Pz. Spah crewman in post number 96, is wearing field-grey tabs on his tropical uniform.

Here is a comparison shot of a Pz./ Recon crewmen wearing the black tabs, boards, etc on his faded tropical uniform. I actually also wonder if this guy has copper brown piping & soutache (probably not but who knows) ???

Chris

[NZMark]

I agree Chris, grey backed (as I note earlier).
Superior photo of the continental insignia on the bleached tunic Not a 1st pattern tunic....any date on that one?
The 'grey-scale' on your attachment indeed shows a marked variation in piping contrasts...
Thanks Tim - As Always!
Mark

[Tim O'Keefe]

In my opinion Mark,

the Pz. Spah crewman in post number 96, is wearing field-grey tabs on his tropical uniform.

Here is a comparison shot of a Pz./ Recon crewmen wearing the black tabs, boards, etc on his faded tropical uniform. I actually also wonder if this guy has copper brown piping & soutache (probably not but who knows) ???

Chris

Agree the Pz Recon soldat is wearing field grey tabs. Mark, another outstanding example of the grey tabs on a tropical tunic
Great photo Chris, Sud front tunic ? (not DAK) notice the difference in contrast with the piping on the straps and the collar tabs.....

[90th Light]

Agree the Pz Recon soldat is wearing field grey tabs. Mark, another outstanding example of the grey tabs on a tropical tunic
Great photo Chris, Sud front tunic ? (not DAK) notice the difference in contrast with the piping on the straps and the collar tabs.....

Hello Tim,

The photo of Leo Datti was probably taken in Crete before Tunisia. He was with Pz. Abt. 212 which was attached to the 22 LL Division as "Garrison Kreta" at that time. Of course some units from J.R.47 & A.R.22 of 22 L.L. were sent as reinforcements to Afrika when the Tiger tanks arrived and at the start of Tunisia. They fought with distinction in the battle for Tunisia.

Because Pz.Abt. 212 was not a regiment and only an Abteilungen it combined with A.A.122 of 22 L.L. Division to be an effective combat unit. Seemingly Leo Datti was seconded to A.A.122 as part of this co-operation & coordination between the two units. Hence why he could have copper brown piping/ soutache but more likely it is deep rosa pink. Certainly not salmon or light pink except for may-be the collar tabs ???

Also he would have been trained, ready and on stand-by to be sent to Tunisia/ Afrika in 1943,

Chris

[OSS]

I believe these two pairs to be Aufklarungs perhaps because they are the M-36 type (pre '43):