Afrika Korps

[Mark Gibson]

Agree Mark, was thinking more about the Afrika CT & those unissued felt tropenhelms & mint third pattern tunics & sidecaps & M40's with rbnr#s etc.

Hello Tim,
I know that you were thinking of these and I agree, they have no connection with the DAK, apart from being tropical items. This is the reason why I don't collect any tropical caps later than 1942; any of the Brandt, CW or Weissbach sidecaps no matter how scarce the soutache; any felt tropenhelms (which I find to be quite ugly); and don't get me started on 3rd pattern or later tunics (absolutely no interest whatsoever).
The Afrika CT is a different matter but they weren't just awarded to the DAK. They are a very attractive award, as is the Kreta cuff.

Interesting that we only refer to the tropical caps with the M40 etc terms. Tunics and boots continue to be referred to as 1st pattern etc, which I personally prefer.

Take care Tim

Mark

[Bond]

I'm a member of a forum which bans the use of the term "tropical" because a few collectors who run the forum don't like that term for items used in North Africa and the Mediterranean areas. They aren't technically tropical areas but tell that to the pale skinned Europeans who fought there. Basically they use censorship, but I will never stop using the term "tropical".


Take care

Mark

I am also a member of the same other forum and it means SS tropical items are called DAK/MED, which is something I find a bit irritating, though I understand it is the forum that changes it to that, and not the person making the post.

As you said and as was pointed out in a previous thread, the term tropical does not really apply, as North Africa and the Med are not in the tropics, though the uniforms and caps etc. were designed by the Tropical institute in Hamburg.

If it is important that items are given the 'correct' M# terminology, why does this only apply to some items and not others, such as M40 caps and not tropical sidecaps or Tropenhelms? All the other caps and helmets, except Visors, have an M#, so does this just reflect the lower desirability of the tropical sidecaps and Tropenhelms?

Only asking and not trying to be difficult. It's a wet and dreary day in Wales this morning, so I have nothing better to do

Regards,

Jerry

[Mark Gibson]

Hi Jerry,

I also agree about the DAK/Med term which tropical is automatically corrected to, it is irritating and completely incorrect. The reason why I continue to use the term tropical is because all of these items were issued on the "Tropenbekleibung", the insert within a Soldbuch for the full issue of tropical clothing and equipment. Interesting the M40 is referred to as Feldmutzen mit schirm oliv on some and just Felmützen mit schirm on others. Perhaps we should start calling them this . The Sidecap is listed as Mütze, oliv für panzer-schützen.
I also insist that despite North Africa not being a tropical environment, it is officially a sub-tropical environment. Perhaps we should start calling everything "sub-tropical" .

I agree that referring to items with what we consider to be the "correct" terms is important but berating those who don't use the correct terms just makes you look like a pedantic a$$ (not you personally Jerry).

Take care

Mark
(from a slightly sunny, not too cold and only damp in the morning day in Canberra)

P.S. Gosh I love collecting tropical items.

[Tim O'Keefe]

By and large I completely agree with you Mark on this. Censorship is unwarranted and a useless tool in 'educating' people.
But at times the only way to inform and educate is to repeat, repeat and if necessary - repeat until the information sinks in. This has been seen and had to be done over many years in the collecting community to rectify previously held misconceptions and un-truths.
I for one cannot stay ambivalent about something I'm passionate about. Regards,
Mark[/QUOTE]

Hi Mark

Ok lets keep singing, Wrong ! do it again ! till the term M40 finally sinks in, but in this country its three strikes & your out. So some will refuse to get it, along with those who don't give a s**te. Agree completely with you on correcting collectors myths and misconceptions as we both have had our share of that

& Jerry

I'm sure your Father and his mates all thought N Afrika was pretty tropical as did the other Allies & the Germans. I know the Americans sure thought they were in the tropics (not like the USMC however who knew they really were).

Agree the M40 cap as its designation over the lack of M# sidecaps etc, is do to collectors preference. The M40 tropical sidecap and the various Tropenhelms could certainly be labled by m# with the Herr M40 cloth version, earlier KM versions & later LW versions etc. But don't let the word get out as the price's will surely go up on these "un-wanted" items that we love

Sunny and warm (not hot) for the last 10 days & for the next 20 in the beautiful Bay Area.

Heia Safari
Tim

[Bond]

Thanks MarkG and Tim for the answers to my dumb questions.

I'm sure we all have a bit of the pedant in us and in my profession the use of correct and universal nomenclature is important, so that's probably where I get my occasional pedantic outbursts from.

As always, I am just trying to learn.

The use of the term DAK or AK/Afrikakorps for any tropical items regardless of when and where they were from, does seem to have declined on this forum and that is possibly due to those who mention it whenever they see it incorrectly applied and the same will probably happen in regards to M40 tropical visor caps.

Regards,

Jerry

PS my Father's main complaint about the desert was the food, as a favorite expression of his was, 'When we were in the desert, we would eat ****, if we could get it', whenever I or my siblings would not eat something provided for a meal!

[Mark Gibson]

Jerry,
as I'm sure you've heard many times before, there are never any dumb questions. If you don't know something, ask.
It's the not asking that is 'dumb'. (the trainer in me talking)

Mark

[NZMark]

Ok lets keep singing, Wrong ! do it again ! till the term M40 finally sinks in, but in this country its three strikes & your out. So some will refuse to get it, along with those who don't give a s**te. Agree completely with you on correcting collectors myths and misconceptions as we both have had our share of that
Thanks Tim - Or are we just being pedantic?! If so, at least that saves us making rash, thoughtless comments which add nothing and educate nobody.
Mark

[afrikasandman]

well anyways anyone looked at the book? Feel like we have all beat this dead horse well into the ground over the tropical/DAK deal all too many times. Some poeple won't change their ways and its lost on them. Would love to hear from anyone who has/seen the book that started the thread. Matt

[NZMark]

well anyways anyone looked at the book? Feel like we have all beat this dead horse well into the ground over the tropical/DAK deal all too many times. Some poeple won't change their ways and its lost on them. Would love to hear from anyone who has/seen the book that started the thread. Matt

Agreed!

[afrikasandman]

guess I'll just order the damn thing and let you all know what I thought of it when it arrives. Matt

[Bond]

guess I'll just order the damn thing and let you all know what I thought of it when it arrives. Matt

If you go to the regimentals web site you can see some pics from it. Let us know if it is any good when it arrives.

Regards,

Jerry

[afrikasandman]

Book ordered..... doesn't look overly great but we will have to see. Matt