Generals Staff Waffenrock opinnions please

[MLH13]

Regarding cost...an original general staff rock in excellent condition could fetch $2,500 to $3,000. With this particular piece, it depends if it originated as a general staff and had the insignia reapplied, or if it is a humped-up veterinarian rock. This is difficult to tell.<O</O
<O</O

IMO...original general staff with reapplied insignia $1,200 to $1,500. If it's a humped-up veterinarian rock $800.00 to $1,000.<O</O
<O</O

Mark<O</O

[HowardC]

Gen. Staff

Thanks for the opinions. Mark, is what your saying that the Vet and the Gen Staff are the same color?? If so, is there any way to tell the difference??

[MLH13]

Thanks for the opinions. Mark, is what your saying that the Vet and the Gen Staff are the same color?? If so, is there any way to tell the difference??

You are correct. general staff and vet used the same color waffenfarbe, karmesinrot (Crimson Red).<O</O
<O</O
Without an owner's label or some other identifiers marked in the tunic, it is almost impossible to tell what this uniform began life as. However, if there are signs of uneven wear on the tabs compared to the wool they are applied to (collar and cuffs); in my opinion this is a red flag. Also, is the wear to all of the insignia consistent? In other words, if there is more wear to the cuff tabs compared to the collar tabs, this could be a sign these tabs were never together, but piecemealed in (Perhaps bought separately and then applied). The same is true when compared to the shoulder boards.<O</O
<O</O
I hope this helps.<O</O
<O</O
Mark <O</O

[HowardC]

general staff

Mark, that is very helpful and appreciated. All the insignia are equal in there appearance and have very minor wear. Also, of interest, there is a long ribbon bar set of loops above the breast pocket for a bar easily as long as the top of the pocket or longer. There are also three loops , one above the other, on that side on the breast pocket. Would it be possible that a Vet would not be quite so decorated?

[Norman LaBarge]

It was not a waffenrock, but, I had a tunic of a vet who had won the IAB, WK1, and a bronze close combat bar. I also saw the second tunic, of the same soldier, with all of the original wartime worn decorations, pics, soldbuch, and other ephemera, so I know the tunics were not altered.

Are there any tailor labels inside the waffenrock?

[RUHL13]

Also, wouldn't Veternarian have the snake and staff cyphers on the shoulder boards?
Regards,
Gary

[HowardC]

Staff

Yes, pic #6 shows the Hannover tailor tag.

[Mike H]

....

Howard,

Mark (MLH13) is offering some superb advice here and as Waffenrock collector I respect, I value his views.

I believe this to be a humped up tunic. The close-up you show of the shoulder board indicates to me this was added. I don't like the attachment of the board to the shoulder. You might look inside to see if there is any evidence of tampering with the lining to sew in the board.

The eagle has been re-sewn in my opinion and I also believe the collar tabs have been added. All to make it a "General Staff".

General Staff Waffenrocks are rare and highly desirable to collectors. I would certainly love to find one for my collection. But just like Artillery officer piped tunics that all of a sudden are "re-born" as General officer uniforms, it would be worthwhile for a humper to do the same here. So move cautiously.

All of this said, an "in hand" is always necessary.

And yes, I think a vet could have a long medal bar -- WWI veteran perhaps.

All the best,

Mike

[MLH13]

Also, wouldn't Veternarian have the snake and staff cyphers on the shoulder boards?
Regards,
Gary

Gary,
<O</O
Vets have the serpent cypher (snake) only, and medical personnel have The Staff of Asclepius (Snake encircling a staff). This is a different version of The Medical Caduceus that is more familiar in today's day and age.<O</O
<O</O
Mark <O</O

[RUHL13]

Your right Mark, i got confused there
Regards,
Gary

[naxos]

Regarding loops.


I agree with Norman, there were a few doctors and vets with impressive combat awards.




... but often the loops are for other awards. (... and don't forget KVK1)

[HowardC]

Staff

Thanks again. I will try to add pics tonight of the interior and loops but the tunic is coming from a family who's father aquired the tunic and the hat (which I will hopefully see soon) sometime in the 70's or earlier. The man was a professional photographer and utilized several militaria in his work. He was also noted for dissasembling the tunics and adding other things that were not correct, just for stage effect. According to the family, was always hitting up veterans and others for stuff from civil war to vietnam. When in hand my first impression was of a uniform disasembled and then put back together since I witnessed this on a few other uniforms he had. He had actually removed things originally put on and then later replced them according to his own tastes or whatever crazy reason for phot's he thought looked good I assume. From what I gathered he would take boards and insignia from one original and put it on another because he thought it looked better for the picture. Kind of like the Mr. Potato head theory

[Mike H]

....

There has been a lot of dummies destroy wonderful items over the years.

For me, this is a huge warning sign.

Mike

[HowardC]

Staff Uniform

Here are some extra pics. Both interior shoulder areas and arm holes appear to be unmolested. There is the maker label and also, none of the insignia are sewn threw the jacket. Thanks

[HowardC]

2

2