Pioneer shoulder boards

[Felix]

Evening gents!

About a year ago I bought this matching schoulder boards pair. They are piped in black for pioneer and piped in the correct piping. They have the cyphers "E" and "2".

Initially I thought them to be SS shoulder boards for "Ergänzungsstelle" but I have since then found out they are not. Real SS "E" shoulder straps should have orange piping, and these have the black piping.
I guess these are kind of rare shoulder boards and comments would be nice to get.

One thing to notice is they are stamped on the reverse "Wirtschaftsamt"
"Litzmannstadt"
I have never seen any shoulder boards marked that way, but a few pieces of cloth items, mainly torusers and jackets.

Any comments would be welcome.

//Felix

[Felix]

Detail

[Felix]

close up...

[Felix]

Close

[Felix]

R

[Felix]

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[TJ Suter]

Odd looking straps. The device was for either a Railroad Construction Unit or a Railroad Engineer Unit. Both units wore the Latin E device.

[Felix]

Odd looking straps. The device was for either a Railroad Construction Unit or a Railroad Engineer Unit. Both units wore the Latin E device.

Yes I agree. Thanks for the comment.
They have narrow tongue and black satin underlay on the tounges.
Never seen such stamps on boards/straps before either...

//Felix

[Johnny R]

I am not saying this is what they are but sadly we have all seen idiots modify nice original pieces and try to increase value by doing stupid things like adding stamps and devices top boards. I hope they are real but many times the "Dummy Factor" is involved with hard to explain items. The could be real WSS Pioniere NCO boards that were altered.

[vizenz]

I'm sorry, but the boards are fakes. They are from a well known German faker and ebay seller.

[Johnny R]

I'm sorry, but the boards are fakes. They are from a well known German faker and ebay seller.

Is that Peter Piper?

[gijoe002us]

Im In agreement with Andreas, There are a few things with this set of straps that raise some doubts.

1. Stamping
2. Cyphers dont seem to have been on the wool for that long at all.
3. Appears artificially aged in areas.
Im not thrilled with the materials on the base or method. Piping is good.
4. The fact that there are a few fakers ( especially on Ebay.de )who seem to fake more obscure items Im guessing to maximise profit when they do slip out into the world.

5. Just a personal note for the last..Most rare straps that have survived and arent tucked away in collections forever are singles nowadays. Any number of reasons for this but it does seem to be the case. Not saying nice hard to find pairs dont exist, just not as common as singles and for myself this deserves a bit more scrutiny as prices usually triple for pairs hence profit motive on humping items up.

Sorry Felix,
Im fairly sure this set is no good.
Joe

[Felix]

Thanks gents for the comments and clues.
They could indeed be fakes. They are odd for sure, but also rather well made in other aspects.

The straps were soaked in oil when I bought them and more dark. I have cleaned them using an aceton bath and after that I discovered the stamps.
The cyphers are rather well sunken into the cloth. It might not be that clear on the photos but is visible when holding them in hand...

Weitze has a similar "E" cypher pair listed on the SS insignia section... and I have seen the same kind of "E" cyphers on what was an original pair of SS Ergänzungsstelle shoulderstraps pair. This kind of "E" cypher has distinctive flaws... and these I have seen all share the same traits...

And they graygreen wool on the underside are of slightly different quality... that is not so common to see on fake straps... and often fake straps have fake zig zag stitches as well.

I would welcome more comments.

Cheers and thanks all so far,
Felix

[Johnny R]

One thing I have noted is in the last 5 years is that faking straps has evolved and they will now take apart wool Army boards to get the piping and then usually reconstruct a board body with other original materials. Most of the fake "DAK" boards IMO are made with original piping and cut up tunics so why not do the same to make SS boards? These usually seem to do this with NCO Tresse to hide the modern sewing for the piping. The piping on these to me looks period, I cannot say either way but I am always shocked at the ever increasing quality of fakes.

[vizenz]

One thing I have noted is in the last 5 years is that faking straps has evolved and they will now take apart wool Army boards to get the piping and then usually reconstruct a board body with other original materials. Most of the fake "DAK" boards IMO are made with original piping and cut up tunics so why not do the same to make SS boards? These usually seem to do this with NCO Tresse to hide the modern sewing for the piping. The piping on these to me looks period, I cannot say either way but I am always shocked at the ever increasing quality of fakes.

Agree!

I'm not sure if I have the real name of the faker, but I have 3 ebay.de alias from him (pictures name) I'm not sure if he made the boards or if he only is selling them. The boards have often a "makers stamp" on the tongue.

The straps are often use "better fake" ground material and original piping, tresse and devices. Sometimes you can find them also made from cheap original boards, pimped up to rarities. There must be a find of original piping material the last two years, because the use of green piping increases. Another possibility is that they found a good way to bleech and dye used piping material.. odd people, odd boards!

Here are some others from him.