DAK Grenadier Tunic?

[MilitaryCollect]

DAK Grenadier Tunic?

Mark,

In late 42' through early 43', German troops were arriving in North Afrika in great haste ~ both by sea and air. They were pouring in! I believe it was 2 - 3 weeks from Germany to Afrika. At least that's the average based on my soldbuch collection with transit & DAK arrival entries. So I respectfully disagree with the "slow supply" theory.

But again, I did not acquire this tunic from a vet. Rather, about 8 years ago it came from a picker in Holland. The story was a deceased 90th Le. Div. vet. Tunic arrived with sand & debris encrusted in the fabric. It has since been professionally cleaned to preserve it.

I'll say this, Mark I wish you could hold & inspect the tunic in your hands too! Has EVERY indication of DAK/Afrika service. My DAK antenna is erect and I am confident that yours' would be too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_...mein#Axis_plan

http://www.secondworldwarhistory.com...el-alamein.asp

Regards,

Christopher

[tropenmilitaria]

Cool tunic whether it was worn in Tunisia, Russia, or Norway
As I said, who knows, but speculation is not a danger if the potential buyer (if this is even for sale?) knows exactly what he is buying. I would have liked all the dirt & grime still left on it but that is just me.

[MilitaryCollect]

DAK Grenadier Tunic?

Hello,

Thank you for ALL the compliments, comments and insights!

Best Wishes,

Christopher

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hello Christopher

Interesting thread, though i have been away from the forum for over a month.
Nice 2nd pattern jacket. But this could not be the original tunic for a member of the 90th Lt Div. The 90th had ceased to exist (as had most of the DAK) by the Tunisian campaign...it could be his replacement after being evacuated to Europe (if wounded) and returning to Tunisia, but his original would have been a first pattern. There were very few surviving members of the 90th in Tunisia.
I believe less than 1,000 were taken prisoner in May '43.

However i do not see the proper sun fading to imply Afrika. Under the collar and pocket flaps and buttonholes there should be some deep shadow, unless its just the photos and my pc. Which is possible...

More likely its another Sud front tunic, also the loops imply extended service but the tunic does not demonstrate that to me.
Not saying its a bad piece, just doubtful about it being an original DAK item.

I think we have proved that there were a few second patterns on the retreat and maybe even at Alamein but those would only be from replacements. Also the DAK was not rebuilt in Tunisia except for the 21st which was re-equiped with replacements from Europe. Though almost all those all wore the first pattern tunic. The 5th Pz Army of Tunisia contained only a small KG of the DAK, and were not considered part of the DAK. The 10th Pz for example.

As for the story from the "picker", would be doubtful as well as these chaps will say anything to promote whatever item they find and can not be trusted.

Still a very nice jacket for a collection of tropical items. Though I agree with Andy, that it would be better if it still had the dirt and grime from the times.

kind regards
Tim

[MilitaryCollect]

DAK Grenadier Tunic?

But this could not be the original tunic for a member of the 90th Lt Div. The 90th had ceased to exist (as had most of the DAK) by the Tunisian campaign...it could be his replacement after being evacuated to Europe (if wounded) and returning to Tunisia, but his original would have been a first pattern. There were very few surviving members of the 90th in Tunisia.
I believe less than 1,000 were taken prisoner in May '43.

Tim,

"German forces brought back by Rommel consisted of the German 15th and 21st Panzer, 90th and 164th Light Afrika Divisions, supplementd by the 1st Luftwaffe Jaeger Brigade, corps troops and reconaissance units wth a combat effective strength of almost 30,000." "Northwest Africa: Seizing the intiative in the West, by George F. Howe, p. 371. Accordingly the DAK in Tunisia numbered about 30,000! Moreover, the 90th Le. Div. participated in most of the major engagements in Tunisia. See Howe, pp. 516-18; 527-28; 531-32; 537-42; and 664. General Graf von Sponeck did not command a "shell" division!

In November and December of 1942, the Germans landed 4,898 troops in Lybia. Howe, p. 683. 4,319 of these were by air and 579 by sea. Id. German troops sent to Tunisia numbered 167,884 from November, 42' thru May, 1943. Id. Am now looking for my copy of TAKOAH to illustrate the 90th Leichte's combat strength(s) during the period of November, 1942 thru May, 1943. The 90th Le. Div. DID receive replacements during this period.

Supply was also flowing into Afrika. In November to December, 1942, over 5,683 tons of "other suplies" arrived in Libyia. Howe, p. 682. Over 37,052 tons of "other supplies" arrived in Tunisia from November, 42' thru May, 1943. Id. I submit that "other supplies" would include replacement clothing such as a 2nd pattern RbNr marked tunic!

Here's some more photos regarding sun fading. It's a very nice tunic either way.

C.

[MilitaryCollect]

Neat WP

Hello,

Here's a neat WP from a 90th Le. soldier who did serve at the 1st battle of el Alamein.

C.

[MilitaryCollect]

DAK Grenadier Tunic?

Tim,

Here's the TAKOAH work on the 90th Le. Div. re: September 42 - May 43'. The 90th received replacements!

http://www.feldgrau.com/leInfDivAfk.php?ID=1

By December, 1942 the Germans were back at El Agheila. Next to fall were El Agheila, Merduma, and Sirte. The 90.leichte continued to serve as a blocking force at Homs and finally at Tripoli, the last bastion of the Germans in all of Libya. By mid February, 1943 all of Libya was firmly in British hands.

After the fall of Libya the Anglo-American advance on Tunisia encroached from both the northwest and the east. At the Tunisian frontier the 90.leichte held positions in the Mareth Line which the British struck on March 23rd, 1943. Although the division was not as weak as it had been at El Alamein the previous fall it was still seriously short of men and material, amounting to approximately 5700 men. Under pressure from the advancing British the 90th Light pulled back to Gabes and acted as a perpetual rearguard as the Axis lines were continually shrunk. By May of 1943 the division was severely drained. Axis fortunes in North Africa were now at a close. The division surrendered at Enfidaville on May 12th, 1943 and the 90th Light survivors went into Allied captivity thereafter.

The 90.leichte-Afrika-Division (mot) is remembered by the Allies as a hard-fighting and determined unit that was followed with great interest by British Intelligence. It fought in nearly every battle from the first attacks into the lines around Tobruk in November 1941 to the last stand in Tunisia in 1943. In the process it lost thousands of men and left an elite battle record second to none.

C.

[MilitaryCollect]

Replacement

KM soldier assigned to 90th Le.

[MilitaryCollect]

Replacement

Hello,

Here's a neat soldbuch from a KM coastal art'y gunner who was sent to Afrka in February, 43' and served with the 90th Le. Div. (5./Pz. Grn. Rgt. 155) in Tunisia.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...r/PGR155-R.htm

C.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Nice update, Howe's numbers seem to prove my point The DAK Pz Gr Bn's had only two Co's of two platoons each & no weapons platoon In Tunisia for example. Bn's were Co strength and Co's were Platoon strength etc.

The DAK basically died at Alamien and never was the same again, including Rommel. Though some will tell You today, every Jerry in Afrka was a member of the DAK. And every Tommy in Afrika was also a "Desert Rat" too. On the Forum, lets give credit where credit is do.

MORE Importantly,
Were any rbnr# 2nd pattern tunics taken at the May surrender ? Would like confirmation ? Does anyone have info on this ??

But without actual provenance not sure how You can call this one a DAK piece.

I do like the wear & shadow under the pocket flaps from the sun, Thanks for the added photos and it is a killer tunic

[Mark Gibson]

But without actual provenance not sure how You can call this one a DAK piece.

I have to agree with Tim here, without provenance it is a tropical tunic. Of course most of my collection is also just tropical with only some notable exceptions definitely being from members of the DAK.

Nice 2nd pattern tunic though.

Mark

[Tim O'Keefe]

Tim,

Here's the TAKOAH work on the 90th Le. Div. re: September 42 - May 43'. The 90th received replacements!

C.

They did indeed, By Nov 7 in the begining of the retreat the entire DAK numbered less than 2,700 men and of that the 90th was well represented at 1,100 men & a single Panzer, thats why they were chosen as the rearguard. Which they did with determination & skill.

Between the last week of Nov and the first week of Dec the DAK received over 5,000 replacements as they entered Tunisia. Mostly veterans of the DAK that had been wounded. Which was a beautiful change from the desert. But when they learned of the 5th Pz Army in the thousands arrival, with its new Tiger tanks & Nebels they felt they were the forgotten German Army...yet they had gone further than any other.

Heia safari

[MilitaryCollect]

DAK Grenadier Tunic?

Gents,

Couldn't agree more! "DAK" is a term of art and should not be used "willy nilly".

My contentions are:

1) it's a very nice tunic with possible Afrika service; and

2) RbNr marked tunics could have seen action in North Afrika.

C.