Pionnier Afrika boards.

[panzermania]

Hi guys,

What do you think about this pionnier Afrika boards ?
Original or not ?

Kind regards

Valentin

[panzermania]

2

[panzermania]

3

[panzermania]

No Opinion ?
Maybe you want other pics ?

Kind regards

Valentin

[Bond]

The canvas fabric looks a bit coarse and the button hole construction is not to my liking either, so not for me, but others with more knowledge might think differently.

Jerry

[madandi]

Sorry, but i don´t like anything on this board. Piping, base-material and the way it was constructed.

[MilitaryCollect]

Pionnier Afrika boards

Junque!

[panzermania]

Hi guys,

Thank you very much !

Kind regards

[90th Light]

I have just mentioned this thread in the cloth headgear section;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=1#post6721735

These are original German tropical shoulder boards often described as "canvas looking" that consistently get dismissed as fake/ bad and chopped up when they are in fact 101% made before May 1945;

At some stage I will put up a thread explaining this type of tropical board. I would be interested to know if collectors have any boards like these in their collections or have come across them before.

Many thanks,

Chris

[OSS]

Reproductions imo

[90th Light]

Reproductions imo

Thank you for the reply OSS,

I will not be the only one out here who finds that interesting.

What are the 1943 picked-up veteran brought back boards in your collection like ? Especially the examples that came from units such as GR47, 2/AR22 plus support units transferred Jan to May 1943 ?

Of course that is only the beginning,

Chris

[MilitaryCollect]

Pionnier Afrika boards.

Hello,

I have handled and owned original DAK pio. NCO boards. These don't look anything like an original, ZERO issue pair.

"Tropical" boards which were known repros featured the same fabric & weave as seen on these (tops of boards & tongues). And that was 20-25 years ago. Further, there is just something about that litzen which doesn't seem right. Maybe it's the lack of wear or bright coloring or ????. Finally, there is wear/aging to the green underlay, but little to NO wear to the the remainder. If from the Tunisian theatre, and over 70 years old, then I would expect to see that in the boards themselves.

Sorry, but I'd run.

Chris

[90th Light]

Hello,

I have handled and owned original DAK pio. NCO boards. These don't look anything like an original, ZERO issue pair.

"Tropical" boards which were known repros featured the same fabric & weave as seen on these (tops of boards). And that was 20-25 years ago. Further, there is just something about that litzen which doesn't seem right. Maybe it's the lack of wear or bright coloring or ????. Finally, there is significant wear to the green underlay, but little to NO wear to the the remainder.

I'd run.

Chris

Thank you for your reply H.R.17,

I would hate to think how many original "DAK" if we are going to call them DAK were brought back by New Zealand soldiers during and by the end of WW2. Given that the New Zealanders were fighting in Afrika from as early as December 1940 when an NZ signal unit of 2NZEF first arrived in that area. Then they fought across North Africa 1941-43 and all the way up Italy 1943-45. How many tropical boards would you guess were brought back ? In fact how many boards in the USA collections today originated from NZ veteran bring backs ?

So let break it down;

If you compare these with "DAK" boards veteran brought back in 1941 then you will find no matches. Same with DAK or Army Afika boards brought back in 1942.

However, get to 1943 and especially amongst those brought back form Tunisia, you will find a match in the odd case. They are not common or main stream by any means. But there was at least one or more makers producing a board like the ones that started this thread at that point in time.

Those who know this have speculated if it was new/ replacement units such GR47, 2/AR22 who had them or was it a resupply of boards for soldiers who had lost or needed replacement ???

Given that the field grey backing cloth is made of off-cuts or second grade cloth. Then what you are calling wear is more likely poor cloth pile on a factory second to start off with. Any way to judge an issued tropical board on the basis that it shows no wear makes no sense.

You talk about reproductions made 20-25 years ago. Please show me images of these reproductions because I bet you can not.

I came across this type of board 2 or 3 years ago and simply wrote them off as most likely bad. This is what collectors with no experience of them always do. Imagine my surprise when collectors here produced such boards made from that type of twill or a slight variation. These collectors had carefully documented details of where the boards had been picked up, when and by who. Sometimes they only had a single not a pair. Neither the less it was this type of board, veteran brought back before May 1945,

Chris

p.s. by "litzen" do you mean tress or piping ? If so please explain what is "not quite right" ?

[MilitaryCollect]

Chris,

Yes, I have considerable respect for your knowledge. I also have the utmost respect for the ANZAC troops in North Afrika from the very beginning. And through their sacrifice, we have many wonderful and stunning contributions to the collecting field/hobby today.

I agree as you infer that these are very odd and completely atypical. However, I respectfully doubt that there was any war-time maker making this exact type of board.

I agree that replacement troops may have encountered a tropical board with green backing - just not this type and with this weave.

There is a considerable difference in the materials used. Looks like a really worn/used/remnant green backing while the board itself, the litzen and tongue are crisp and newer looking. Very odd indeed.

And the real, vet acquired DAK boards I've seen all show character and are of the combat/field worn variety. Tunisia was a very harsh environment indeed. Mud and rain and rain and mud said the English soldier hovering over his tea. (Referring to a well know video on the Tunisia theatre). And I'd guess that a Pioneer NCO in the Tunisian field of operations would be very busy.

I am very sorry, but I never kept images of fakes. But I surely encountered my share in my DAK collecting era.

Chris

[90th Light]

Thank again for your reply H.R.17,

I have just made some phone calls here and asked my fellow collectors to send me some good images of their examples of this type of board.

I intended to start a thread about this type. They do not seem to be known to many collectors at all. Yet they existed for sure. In my opinion it is important that we document this while we still have a link to collectors who got them directly from the NZ veterans.

It is interesting that you refer to;

"vet acquired DAK boards I've seen all show character and are of the combat/field worn variety."

I agree that this is true of boards that have been worn in the field. However, this is not the case for boards taken from overrun supply depots or field stores.

Some of the boards of this type here in NZ, have come from depots/ stores and as such show no use. The details of such finds have been noted.

There were definitely tropical boards made before May 1945 that are this "odd, completely atypical and this exact type of board" made by some unknown maker or makers.

Whether they were for replacement troops or a replacement tropical board with that green backing in stores is an unanswered question. The point is, they were that type and this weave.

I agree there is considerable difference in the materials used which is why it is important to to start a thread to document this type. I also re-stress that any unissued board will look "crisp and newer" looking unless they have been stored badly.

Will start the thread about these as soon as I can next week.

In the mean time I again ask any collector who has this type of tropical board to please post images here,

Chris