2 Wool Helferin Tunics Opinions Needed

[9SSHohenstaufen]

Hey guys, just picked up 2 field gray wool Helferin Tunics from Germany which I have currently listed on eBay, although cut unlike most Heer Helferin tunics seen in photos. I have done a lot of research on these things and feel that the two that I have almost seem to be cut in the SS style, one having a breast pocket, both have hip pockets, although one has scalloped pocket flaps. One is double breasted two rows of buttons that button opposite of a man's cut tunic, the other has the buttons on the other side which is more like men's style. One has all black lining, the other has dark gray and black lining. I cannot imagine these being anything other than for some women's branch of the Wehrmacht. No insignia is present. The one with the breast pocket is lined with SPLINTER CAMOUFLAGE MATERIAL! These are without a doubt wartime but I cannot successfully identify them. None have black buttons which seem to be the standard Helferin style buttons. The double breasted one does not have flapped breast pockets which all Heer Helferin tunics seem to have. Any opinions on these would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you in advance.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MESE:IT

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...e=STRK:MESE:IT

[CWP]

In my opinion both of these are converted military garments intended for civilian use in the difficult clothing shortages of the immediate post-war period. These do not have characteristics of wartime issue uniform items. I think both of them might have been converted from period greatcoats, or simply made with left-over fabric in a way that would disguise the former military origin. I have seen a lot of these conversions, some were simply done and others more elaborate.

[NickG]

I agree...good chance these both are infact converted great coats or something along those lines...
They look too shoddy for government issue pieces... Combat troops (male) did wear field made items "not so expertly" tailored...

but female troops on the other hand were wearing for the most part quality made comfortable "office attire" ...(perhaps a fine officer grade gabardine wool)
and would not wear such coarse wool garments (unless its a greatcoat), assembled with scrap left over materials, such as the shown splinter liners...
(female LW flak helpers is a different story, they were in the field)

I agree most likely made with left over materials early post war in war torn Germany where everything was in short supply...
This also explains the civilian-like buttons. Still neat garments illustrating the desparation of the situation with shortages in 1945-1946.


If the designs are not in accordance with Helferin uniform regulations, you stated " cut unlike most Heer Helferin tunics" well that's another
indicator that these are in fact civilian make-shift clothing items... That's my opinion but maybe I'm wrong?

Any signs (traces) of former military insignia? That would be a clue to prove me wrong!

Here's a neat picture btw... Nicely tailored (fine wool) with stylish lapels... Helferinnen in the military wanted fashionable quality wears...its a female thing!

[NickG]

Any signs (traces) of former military insignia? That would be a clue to prove me wrong!

Same comment for issuance stamps, depot stamps, size stamps, tailor info? probably none...
if those are lacking that's another probable clue that these are infact home made garments intended for civilian use...

[9SSHohenstaufen]

Thank you for your quick responses. I do not feel that these are shoddy, each is made from different wool, but the wool is not course at all. Perhaps the photographs may lead one to reach this conclusion but I am experienced with varying grades of German wool and the wool used in construction of these is actually good quality, fairly smooth similar to other female wool items that I have seen before. I have seen later production greatcoats and tunics made from super scratchy course wool and these women's coats are by no means course. I agree that some parts of construction indeed leave something to be desired. They very well may be postwar construction but I am not completely convinced yet, I cannot tell if insignia was ever applied to these, it is difficult to tell as some areas where insignia would have been are worn, the nap is missing, but too difficult to tell for sure. In any case these could easily be converted for reenactors, as Helferin uniforms are becoming more desirable.

[djpool]

Agree. Jim

In my opinion both of these are converted military garments intended for civilian use in the difficult clothing shortages of the immediate post-war period. These do not have characteristics of wartime issue uniform items. I think both of them might have been converted from period greatcoats, or simply made with left-over fabric in a way that would disguise the former military origin. I have seen a lot of these conversions, some were simply done and others more elaborate.

[NickG]

In any case these could easily be converted for reenactors, as Helferin uniforms are becoming more desirable.

Very true! These should sell on your Ebay auctions. The splinter material is a cool characteristic! No doubt war time materials, no question there!
There is a nice thread covering somebody's female uniforms collection on WAF (many nationalities) to include German Helferin uniforms.
Worth comparing! You did mention in your auction that there was a chance these were post 1945 made garments! Honest description!