Artillery Waffenrock up for review

[bravecelt]

I've never seen collar insignia placed that far back from the leading edge of the collar...doesn't mean it didn't happen though. Otherwise, it is a fine example of an under-appreciated uniform until recently.

Paul

The collar tabs are absolutely correct and normal placed on a Waffenrock like this to have space to place the wide Tresse in case of promotion.

Frank

[Bryant U.]

Can you see any evidence of thread being picked (like a number etc.) out under the areas beneath the roman numerals?

Yes it looks like a number might have been picked out.

-Bryant

[Johnny R]

Yes it looks like a number might have been picked out.

-Bryant

See if you can figure out what it was or at least if it was a roman numeral or a typical number. Are there any unit stamps inside under the size stamps or maybe on the inside of the skirt or lower lapels, name tag sewn in the vent pockets etc. ?

[Bryant U.]

I think what I'm looking at is where a/the cypher was once placed lower on the tunic. I did find this inside the pocket.



-Bryant

[Paul McKee]

The collar tabs are absolutely correct and normal placed on a Waffenrock like this to have space to place the wide Tresse in case of promotion.

Frank

That is an interesting theory...but I strongly disagree. The tabs are NOT absolutely correctly placed for an enlisted Waffenrock. Compare this Waffenrock to many of the enlisted examples published in Tim Curley and Neil Stewart's excellent Waffenrock book and it will be readily apparent that the collar insignia is not only set too far back, but is not correctly centered on the collar!

Regards,
Paul

[Paul McKee]

PS:
Looking at the name tag posted above, it becomes apparent that the odd placement of the collar insignia is not due to an anticipated promotion, but due to an NCO demotion! The tresse was removed and the collar Litzen left were they lay. You can still see the indentation of the tresse on the collar as well as the cuffs.

I wonder what trouble former Unteroffizier Forberg got into?

Paul

[Johnny R]

PS:
Looking at the name tag posted above, it becomes apparent that the odd placement of the collar insignia is not due to an anticipated promotion, but due to an NCO demotion! The tresse was removed and the collar Litzen left were they lay. You can still see the indentation of the tresse on the collar as well as the cuffs.

I wonder what trouble former Unteroffizier Forberg got into?

Paul

I agree with Paul, when it was tailored the tabs were set for application of tress. This is interesting because it suggests one of two things, either that units may have specified this application from factories or depots maybe ordering specific sizes for individuals or that tunics were recieved at unit level without tabs applied.

[Dave Suter]

Agree with Paul - placement of the collar tabs is due to a demotion and the removal of the tress. In addition, enlisted men did not wear metal shoulder strap devices. Either the metal ones weren't removed when the demotion occurred, or they were added post-war.

[Johnny R]

I have seen tunics were tress was removed after the war for Civilian use (as well as lining material) so that is another option. By regulation enlisted men and Jr. NCOS assigned as cadre in Schools and some other home-units units did wear Metal insignia on boards but it does not seem to apply in this case.

[Bryant U.]

This has turned out to be an interesting Waffenrock so far. Thanks for the input guys!

-Bryant

[Johnny R]

They are always fun when they are named. Time to go cook out New Years steaks in 3 feet of snow. God love it. They always taste the best this time of year.

[Bryant U.]

Alright guys I know this isn't supposed to be discussed within the thread so I'll leave it to PMs. How about estimated value?

-Bryant