Luft HBT splinter camo strap.

[MGN]

Willi, was that hard to do? It would of cleared up a great deal of confussion I and maybe some others had on the autheinticity of your shoulder board.................But Wait...... Both sides need to be produced by a lont piece of HBT.


Can you post a photo of the other side as well?????????


Michael

[Willi Z.]

Splinter ground division jackets first came out in 1942. The first ones were made on the fabric know as splinter over Grünmeliert, just like many early splinter step-in smocks and some 1942 produced 3rd model splinter smocks. Then the splinter ground division smocks came out in the smooth cotton fabric, as John desrcibed. HBTs came later and were made till the end. IN the FJ section we have discussed and featured some of these.

Michael, I am not sure what your issue is.

Willi

[MGN]

Hello again Willi,
No issue, just a simple question you shouldn't get worked up over it ,
Just wanted to have a look of the other side......Thats it and nothing else.
Is that possible?


Michael

[Willi Z.]

I don't appreciate your tone and demanding manner.

[MGN]

Just asked for a simple photo, if you cant provide just say NO

[Dave Suter]

Can't speak too much on these splinter-pattern HBT straps. I have one HBT strap - artillery piped - and it is made of one continuous piece of material. Given the very wide range of strap manufacturers - factories, private tailors, concentrations camps, unit tailors, etc. there is a significant variety of manufature techniques and meterials. As to the length of the strap, is was (correctly) determined by measuring the distance from the head seam to the edge of the collar. 2 cm was subtracted and that determined the strap length. Of course, mass-produced straps would have been another story - and the closer the Russians got the less it mattered too.....

[MGN]

Thanks for your remarks, Dave I appreciate it. Interesting points that you bring to the table.

Michael

[W Petz]

Lwfd Hbt Camo Straps

Willi,

Without being to demanding can you post the reverse side of your straps. I have a pair of splinter Camo straps with green piping that I picked up in EUROPE over 16 years ago. I believe they are real and fit perfectly on my ground combat jacket. I have no way of posting them on the forum but I will try to have my friend Jim Pool post them for me. That is If he hasn't gone blind posting all those photos for me on album history of Lt. Koenig and his father. This is a very interesting discussion for me and I for one appreciate you starting this thread. Lets keep cool and don't let tempers interfere with the discussion. Thanks - Bill

[Willi Z.]

My pleasure Bill. Nice to see you on the forum. If you remember, we used to email when you were still stationed in Germany. I understand that you are now in Jim's neck of the woods. I think we saw some of your FJ paperwork in the FJ section.

Here is the reverse. As on the front, you can see that they are made from two long pieces of cloth stitched together. Originals will also have a stitch line (all the ones that I have seen to date..anything is possible though) aroudn the point where they fold...an effort to give the fabric more support at, or near, the point where they go through the loop. The ones in Werner's book, which is the only source I can think of right now, are the exact same way. I have also only seen them in this color configuration...matches the splinter HBT jacket perfectly.

Would like to see yours with the piping. Have never seen a splinter set like that though.

Willi

[Willi Z.]

While on the topic of HBT straps with pipinp, here are some Luft HBT straps. These are from matched sets and were worn on the green and blue-grey HBT jackets. You can see the exact same construction; two pieces of HBT stitched together, and the stitch line at about the middle.

[Willi Z.]

And the back sides. Note that one of the blue-grey straps has an extra peice of blue-grey wool sewn to the back. It is on top of the back layer of HBT.

[W Petz]

Great HBT straps!!

Willi,

Thanks for posting the reverse side and the other HBT straps. You have a great selection. Yes..we exchanged emails while I was still in Germany. I also had dealings with Eric and you probably know about the trade we did. I now live in Corpus Christi, Texas which is only a 2 1/2 hour drive from my buddy Jim Pool. I will try to get the straps up to Jim Pool so he can take some pics and post them on the forum. I believe they are a variation of the LWFD straps with wool cloth backing and green piping. One day I will be able to take some pics of my Hobby room after I finish it. I converted my two car garage into a huge hobby room. I definitely needed the space since most of my Household Goods shipment was actually my collection...No joke!!! That's over 16 years worth of collecting while in Germany. My hobby room is in shambles at the moment but it is coming along. My spare bedroom is packed with various types of German Ammo boxes so if you know anyone that needs some...they will eventually be for sale. So far I have 9 mannequins displayed in the hobby room (HG, Para and LW Field Division) I have a long way to go and four more manneqauins are standing in the hall waiting to jump in. My Wehrmacht bicycles, two infantry carts, German Para drop container take up alot of space. Oh by the way those Eben Emael Glider photos were mine that Jim posted for me plus many others as well. I'm glad I can contribute something to the forums. Bill

[Willi Z.]

I am sure you can offer alot to this forum Bill. Can't wait to see some of your great stuff! I could use a nice 9mm ammo box.... Is the FJ Waffenbehälter still in it's original paint?

Willi

[John Hodgin]

Willi, like I said, I've never been lucky enough to own any splinter HBT shoulder straps. But I have had green and blue-grey HBT straps like the ones you posted. The straps I owned at one time were constructed exactly like yours, with the stitched seam near the fold point. This is the same way tropical Luftwaffe straps are constructed. My HBT straps were also of different lengths, that is to say, that the green pair were what Chris B. refers to as the "short bastards."

Reeky, I am saying that both were matched pairs, but that the grey pair was longer than the green. That's the best I can do, I don't speak Imperial.. Here is a photo of the wool Feldwebel straps on their blouse, they are "equal" :-). Just as Willi's unissued blouse, this example is a very small size.

Michael, as I said in my PM to you, I don't have a problem that Willi's splinter HBT strap is constructed in this way. I'm not familiar with your "one piece" construction, so I shouldn't comment, but you seen comfortable with what you know about it. I am sorry that I didn't understand the point you were making about this in your initial posts.

Jack, I apologize that my posts were filppant, it's personally been a hard winter and I have no patience left.

John

[W Petz]

LWFD HBT Camo Straps

Willi,

Thanks again for your thread and comments. I took a look again at my LWFD Camo straps (it's been a long time). I didn't mention it but they are not HBT and of two piece construction which leads me to believe they are an earlier pattern. They could have been privately made. Hopefully I can get them posted fairly soon. I would like to add something on this thread about the LWFD Jacket. I have photographic evidence that continental shoulder boards (officer, NCO and lower enlisted) were commonly worn/or not worn at all on the LWFD combat Jackets. My friend Jim Pool just posted some FD photos under the Fallschirmjaeger forum. I have a stack of others that I want to post. I also have a really nice set of 6 photo albums on a FD soldier. It was common place that LWFD Soldier wore just about anything they could get there hands on so there is a mixture of uniforms. In that set of six albums wear of FJ Jump trousers seems to be commonly worn.
Unfortunately my Waffenbehalter came out of the not so good lot (got it very cheap) that was found in a Barn near Stendal. It had the original paint but with much surface rust. A friend of mine Bill Wilkins who used to do alot of restoration work on the Military side of the Auto-Technik Museum Sinsheim passed away before he could finish the restoration on my waffenbehalter. The result is that most of the original paint except small patches where the numbers are located is gone. Good news is that most of the inside paint survived along with the wood panels, straps and the ID plate. I also have the handle, original wheels and the crushible end piece. Bill