Großdeutschland Title and Boards

[Albert]

Dear All,

A friend of mine has in his collection a Großdeutschland cuff title and shoulder boards. Your opinions please:

[Albert]

detail 1:

[Albert]

detail 2

[Albert]

detail 3

[Albert]

Shoulderboards:

[Albert]

... sorry for the bad quality of the pictures.

Thanks in advance for any and all input.

Best regards,
Al

[Dave Suter]

Here's an original for comparison.

[Dave Suter]

Two for the price of one. (Yes, I tried to do the pictures side-by-side, but that is something only people like the Mighty Master from Matawan can do.)

[CSP]

Al:
Hard for me to say with just what is shown. I know that is the last thing you want to hear, but these things are so faked, that inspecting them in person is always best.

I can give you my initial impression, however.

The cufftitle might be an original, but the following areas would have me looking real hard: the Russia Braid is not squarely on the base cloth - ie, it does not parallel the edge straight all along the edge but runs off in places. This is not a firm sign of a bad one - just something a lot of repros manage to do pretty consistently with this 3rd pattern, bullion embroidered style that looks to be a tailored type, versus an issue type. The spacing of the letters and the overall appearance of the word/title are somewhat spaced out and 'box" looking, respectively. I prefer to see a tighter spacing of the letters and more of a uniform zig-zag (top to bottom) rendering of the letters, respectively. The thickness of the bullon thread is another area deserving close scrutiny. While it certainly can vary, many of the modern copies use a thicker thread...the best originals I see use a fine bullion...the difference is almost double the number of sew-strokes to execute the letter. I have seen examples with thicker bullion, but still, the execution is a little tighter. There are so many variations...and a lot of post-war veterans momentos to state definitely from just the pictures you show.

The back a lot of the time gives away more - if not some of the best - clues...as do the ends.

With respect to the straps - the "GD" cypher does not make a good first impression. It is not sharply executed...look especially at the second one Dave posted...that shows what I mean to best advantage, for a sharply executed cypher. The one on the strap you post looks to have alot of flash around it. The prongs/reverse you would want to look at as well....trying to pry it up a bit to see the undersides can assist in a determination, but like I said - at a glance, this one does not inspire.

[Albert]

Hello guys,


Thanks a lot for your answers. First, let me give you the history of this. A friend of mine got those from one of his contacts who said he got them at a German fleamarket together with a panzer piepd visor. So much for the story, now the hardware. The Panzer visor is a beauty and is unit stamped to some Krad unit. Actually, I should check if this unit was part of GD...

The sew in boards are fine too. The GD insignia is made of aluminum and actually look like the first set posted by Dave. The letters have two pointy, trianglular shaped prongs on the back. I hope you know what I mean, not the long roiund pin type but the sjort flat type. In reality the GD insignia look rather well detailed.

What I am really not sure about is the cuff title. I have never seen a 100% original example and am a bit paranoid... The back is rather non telling as the excess material meets in the middle and is loosely stitched together. Loosely but firm enough so one can't get a peek on the relevant area.

The reason I asked this question is that if the whole setr is 100% original I would try to get it for my collection

Thanks again, and plese, let me know if there is anything else...

Best regards,
Al

[CSP]

Al:
You seem certain on your impression of the straps...so maybe go with your instincts. I do not know what you mean by "pointy triangular shaped prongs" (short flat type), but I have never seen an original GD cypher with round pins, so good that these are not that way.

Regarding the cufftitle reverse: What you briefly describe with the long folded edges that are stitched closed on the reverse occurs on both originals and post-war cufftitles...more so on the latter these days. The detail of the reverse bullion embroidery would tell more, but hard to see sometimes, as you note. I still have not seen or read anything you have posted that makes me think highly of the cufftitle.

I am unable to give you more from what I see. Cannot comment on the cap, straps and cufftitle being a 'group'.

[Albert]

Scott,
Yes, short flat. That's good news on the letters.

The group thing is exactly what worries me. If I was sure it is all 100% original and came together from the original owner I would try to trade it for my collection. But I am worried that the cuff title might have been added

Thanks again for your time and help

Al

[CSP]

I doubt that there is a reasonable way to validate the story...and even if you do not believe it, and you believe all the items are 100%, you would have three nice items.