Stabsgefreiter

[gdfuseddie]

As usual in this hobby, nothing is simple. When looking at the lower rank structure from schutze to stabsgefreiter, I know that the rank patches changed somewhat over the years, and it would appear that stabsgefreiter is the one which poses most questions.

Problem 1 - The patch I refer to is two chevrons and a star/pip. It seems to me from looking at books and previous discusions on this forum, that this patch denoted stabsgefreiter up until 1942, regardless of other changes to the system of ranks displayed on the upper arm. The questions start at this point, as according to some after '42 the rank of stabsgefreiter disappeared and this patch was used to denote an obergefreiter with over 6 years service. We know for a fact that stabsgefreiters did still exist in '45, as there is documentation to prove this, so the rank clearly didn't disappear.

Problem 2 - As for the rank of stabgefreiter itself, there are two trains of thought on what this rank actually was. The first is that stabsgefreiter is a corporal on administrative duty or staff corporal. The second is that stabsgefreiter is an obergefreiter with over 6 years service. Which is it? Or did this change at some point too?

Is it possible that the confusion of the first problem is a result of confusion caused by the second problem?

Can anyone answer what this patch actually meant in 1942? And what exactly was a stabsgefreiter anyway?

[pzrwest]

Talking with my u-boat vet Edgar about the stabs ranks and he told me they were carear ranks. He said that is the rank they will remain at they won't advance any further.

[gdfuseddie]

Cheers Pzrwest, judging by the replies I've picked a difficult question to answer.

[Johnny R]

This is explained over the course of two pages in Angolia Vol. I.

[Soldat de Fer]

This is explained over the course of two pages in Angolia Vol. I.

Hello
I agree , also in the great work " La Wehrmacht " were they gave detailed history about introduction, changes etc... as per the official regulations of the army , if you understand French .
Regards
P-Y

[gdfuseddie]

Cheers guys. Do you have the full title of the Angolia book, as I know he's done a few.

[Johnny R]

http://www.amazon.com/Uniforms-Tradi...4856201&sr=1-2

[gdfuseddie]

Cheers Johnny. With the price range of this and the other Angolia books I wanted to make sure I'm getting the right one.

Thanks again.

[Johnny R]

There are three volumes in the set, the first one deals with uniforms and clothing followed by insignia. The second volume also has Army insingia, Aux. Foreign, etc. and the third is mostly on gear.

[DonC]

There is a complete three volume set on eBay right now for $295, I believe.

Don

[gdfuseddie]

Cheers for all the replies and help.

[Fultz]

There is a LOT of confusion in print and on the Web about this, but Angolia has the straight dope.

Easy answer (Heer only): Obergefreiter + 6 always wore one chevron and a pip. Stabsgefreiter always wore two chevrons and a pip. They were always two separate ranks.

The confusion arises because, in the Reichsheer, Stabsgefreiter was a sort of end-of-the-line paygrade for noncombat specialists (or real sad sacks), who were ineligible for NCO academy and further promotion. In 1934, with the creation of specialist NCO grades, promotions to StGefr. were suspended although existing StGefr kept their rank, at least until they were promoted or discharged.

In 1942, the Heer resurrected the rank, but for a completely different reason: shortages of NCO's, especially since in combat units the most promising NCO candidates were the men they could least spare to send to UOS. StGefr was therefore a stopgap, a sort of Acting Corporal paygrade for Mannschaften filling junior NCO billets.

A great deal of confusion arises from the fact that when StGefr was re-instituted, the Heer at that time blanket-promoted all ObGefr who had five or more years service as of that date (temporarily wiping out the "ObGefr +6" paygrade). However, thereafter promotions were made normally, by regimental commanders on the company CO's recommendation.

For re-enactment purposes, the odds of having a StGefr in the unit depends on the date. Before late '42, very unlikely indeed. Afterwards, it depends on whether the unit has been at the front for a while, or whether it's in or just out of a refit period (these men would probably be attending or through Unteroffizier-schule). Late in the war, Normandy onwards, unlikely again since battlefield promotions to UO were becoming the norm.

[naxos]

.

Fultz did a great job explaining this

I agree that later in the war, Normandy onwards, Stabsgefreiter promotions were unlikely since battlefield promotions to UO (Unteroffizier) were becoming the norm.

However, there is always the exception.

This man, even though from 1940 on he served in a front-line unit and been awarded EKII, GAB and Ostmedaille, was promoted only to a mere Stabsgefreiter on April 20, 1945.

[NickG]

Slow promotion too ...took 3 years!
Nice late entry, April 1945...the war was practically over!

[gdfuseddie]

Thanks for that, interesting to see this example.