some help on a tunic - please

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

Hi I am still really new to tunics & this is my first one, an artillery officer's. It is made by a tailor "Emil Schatz, Oschatz, Strehlaerstrasse 13" dated 1943. My questions are, the collar tabs are not machine sewn on, done by hand but IMO pretty sloppy workmanship. Is this correct for a tailored unifrom ? or is it some one has added after the fact ?? The name tag does say Art Lt Miles Oschatz

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

collartab

Here is the right collar tab

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

2nd question - awards

What awards went here - I assume EK1 middle, Lower left GAB or Army Flak, & Lower right Woundbadge. The distance between the loops measure 3cm, 3 cm & 3.5 cm. The lower right is a different colour so assume either this was added later or was the first loops & then the others added later. It also has loops for a 3 piece ribbon bar which is the same cotton as the middle & lower left. I've tried top put a woundbadge on the lower right but it doesnt fit. Does anyone have any insights as to what went where ??

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

the whole uniform

Thanks in advance

[Dave Suter]

Tabs look like replacements to me. Stitching is pretty sloppy. It may just be the photo, but the collar looks like it shows some wear that stops at the tab.

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

Wear

Yes Dave it does show wear there but not on the otherside, the uniform is not the mintiest by any means, does this wear thing signify anything ??

[John Pic]

I dont see what Dave Suter sees,I see that the tabs are original to the tunic and are just hand sewn on with what looks like the thick period thread often used to do so.If you look at the photo of the collar underside you will notice there are no other indications of other tabs being sewn on also the tabs may be an altogether different shade of green.Officer tunics often sported hand sewn insignias in both the Heer and Waffen SS and often it was not so neat appearing on the underside of the collar as it would be if machined on.Some collectors prefer to see only machins sewn tabs but with officer tunics i can accept either. That is a beauty of a Tunic.Very nice.

[CRAIGGOODWIN]

Thanks John

for the feedback & comments, I just thought a tailor would have done a better job ??
As you say there is no evidence on the underside of any other needle holes, There was a loose thread & I did the burn test it did seem to melt not burn but the thread was so small I am not sure, & it didnt have that "plastic burnt" smell to it, maybe I should get a blacklight & test it

[Dave Suter]

Regarding the wear, it is indeed important. Here's my advice. Take the tunic outside in the bright sun. Look for there things - first, look at the collar and the top of the collar tab. Since this is a worn piece, does the wear on the top of the collar tab match the wear on the top of the collar? If not, it is probably replaced. Next, look at the underside of the collar. Any evidence of other collar tabs having been sewn on? Looking back at the front side, is there any indication of a 'shadow' on the collar showing a darker area indicating that the tabs are a replacement but are not quite the same size as the originals? Generally these three things will tell the story.

John is quite correct that original tabs can be both machine and hand sewn. However, the manner of stitching indicates to me an amateur (probably post-war) replacement job. Also, look at the center Waffenfarbe bars. Notice how they form V's? The point of the V should point toward the front of the tunic. Yours point to the rear. Again, not a guarantee of being replaced, but it is another indication.

Having said that, there is nothing wrong with a uniform restoration. Restored breast eagles are the most common, of course. But I wouldn't pass on a good tunic just because it has had the tabs replaced.

[Tim Curley]

Artillery Officer Tunic

Regarding your question as to what badge would have gone on the third set of
vertical loops on the pocket - most likely it was a Sports Badge....DRL or SA.

As to the collar tabs sewn on with the center "Vs" heading the in wrong direction, this is a common mistake found on untouched original tunics. You can find examples where one tab points correctly and the opposite one points incorrectly or both point incorrectly. Apparently period tailors weren't very concerned about it and one has to assume the original tunic owners either never noticed these mistakes or if they noticed them, figured they weren't worth worrying about in many cases and therefore never had them corrected.

[John Pic]

Ive examined several tunics with provenence wit such sloppy sewing jobs over the years.I myself prefer the machine sewn unless Im sure where the tunic has been. I had a Panzerjager officers tunic where the litzen were slopily sewn on around the edges of the bullion.This tunic was given to me by the former owner while I was stationed in Germany.It looked fine until you lifted the collar then it looked like a disarray of threads going every which way.
A note about the Blacklight..it only works on white threads,in my experience Ive never seen white period thread glow neon blue.Period dyes could have a slight glow so its useless to use them on anything treated with color.

[Perry Floyd]

A blacklight will highlight expert repairs that you would normally miss with the naked eye giving it a look over, it's actually my favorite use for this light..

[John Pic]

I forgot it can be used in a pitch dark room to find shadows of removed insignias.

[SgtB]

Beautiful tunic Craig! I'm looking for an infantry just like it.

While I've never seen tabs sewn on quite like this, you have to keep in
mind that it's quite possible that the guy's mom, or even he himself sewed
them on. Anybody who's been in the military knows what I'm talking about.

It happened a lot more than you may think.

[CSP]

It is difficult to be certain whether the tabs are wartime sewn or post war sewn. The uniform itself is a nice representative example of an officer's service tunic. However, I tend to agree with Dave that the insignia is most likely post war resewn. Here are several additional reasons why I am inclined this way. First, as Dave makes note of: the litzen are backwards. Regarding this point, many officers had orderlies who would do their sewing. I do not know what skill level these orderlies had. Being in the Army myself, flip-flopping insignia occurs from time to time with more junior officers, but the rules are fairly well known and it is not a common occurance. If it can happen today, it could have happened back then. Taken in to account with the next point made: sloppy hand sewing - the person who sewed these litzen, had little skill. So, secondly, I would think that a hem style stitch would have been used by someone with basic knowledge of sewing...that is, the needle, and thus the thread, would not have pierced the collar, but rather been looped along the edge of the litzen, just under the top surface of the uniform collar material. I tend to doubt an orderly would screw it up so bad, and I am decidely against conceeding that a tailor would.

I believe that the majority of uniforms around these days have some or all replaced insignia on them. Personally I prefer teh real deal, unreplaced like most, but if everything is original, such a reconstructed piece is only marginally of less interest to me. In many instances, it may be the insignia that originally went with the uniform, but was taken off and kept in the pocket following surrender. I cannot quote the Allied order, but insignia of rank was ordered removed from the uniforms of surrenderied/capitulated Germans/Wehrmacht soldiers. Additionaly, it was not long until the swastika was outlawed....which is one reason why so many breast eagles are replaced. Taken together, one can see why so many uniforms have replaced insignia.