Panzer Wrapper - opinions please

[galizien41]

Let me start by saying that I have never really handled this type of panzer wrap. But my first impression, I kinda like this one.

[Panzer Bob]

Gabardine Wraps

Hello!
While not very common (obviously), they were made. This looks to be a different manufacturer from the one I own, but construction looks OK to me. I have also seen one for a Spieß. These were generally purchased by senior NCO's and officers, who wanted a different, perhaps more tailored or stylish look.
Not 100% sure on the collar tabs, since they look a tad wide, but they look nice to me as well. What's interesting on the wrap I have is the fact that the collar tab base material is also made out of gabardine.
Regards,
Bob

[Luca Ongaro]

I like what I see, nice wrap in my opinion :thumbup
Luca

[Mike Davis]

...Not 100% sure on the collar tabs, since they look a tad wide, but they look nice to me as well. What's interesting on the wrap I have is the fact that the collar tab base material is also made out of gabardine...

Agreed. The wraps I have seen made in gabardine have had matching tabs made of the same fabric. The tabs attached to the subject wrap are reproductions in my opinion....

[panzer_erc]

Hello,
I like the wrap construction, the cloth used, the liner and the stamps. IMO the collar tabs and skulls are not wartime. May be you can find old seam tracks if you see the collar in detail.

[slade007]

Nice looking original wrap you have there.

[bnz. 42]

If it is a private/tailor-made/purchased wrap, then why there are size and depot stampings? Honestly, I just want to learn. Or there were "issue"-wraps made out of gabardine on factories for EM/NCO?
Also if it is a "higher-quility" tailor-made piece for an officer, then how come the reverse of the collar finished so cruedly?
And eagle is well used and oxidized while the wrap is hardly used.. IMO most likely the eagle did not belong to it originally.

[Glenn McInnes]

Some issue wraps and hats (as this one appears to be) were factory produced from this material I believe.


Agree with Bob,Mike & Eugenio about the collar tabs.



Glenn

[bnz. 42]

Some issue wraps and hats (as this one appears to be) were factory produced from this material I believe.




Glenn

Thanks

[Richard P]

Glenn is right on this being factory produced, that's why it's stamped the way it is. I've seen a fair number of these and they were a mixture of officer and EM with no real differences. I agree with Bob, Mike, Eugenio, and Glenn on the tabs. Sewing looks odd from the back, piping material would need to be seen with a loop to see what it's made of, plus the skulls are both without pins and sewn on...the cheap way to use broken prong skulls.

The wrap has been taken in both front and back in a way that I'm not sure would be done in the WWII era. I would need to see it in person or with way better photos inside and out.The two seams on the front and two seams on the back are very visible and seem out of place. The normal way to down size a wrap is with the center seam taken in , it just strikes me as odd, but not impossible the way it is done.

Bnz. 42 made a valid observation on the eagle, in hand inspection required for a better determination.

It is still a nice original wrap, board mounting looks good, over all a nice piece and quite salvagable with an investment needed for tabs and skulls, but check out the alterations too.

Richard

[Trendy]

Hello,
many thanks for your help
Well, I think I don´t buy this wrapper because I´m looking for a untouched 100% real wrapper. The fake tabs are reason enough for me not to buy this.
So I will save my money and start to search again.
Best regards
Tom

[Luca Ongaro]

I'd like to know for which reason tabs are considerated fakes.
Luca

[Leroy]

I'd like to know for which reason tabs are considerated fakes.
Luca

Me, too. Is it because the base material is different, or the skulls sewn on, or the piping is incorrectly applied,or itself modern, or what?

I will readily confess that I am not an expert of any kind on wraps...but I have been diligently and seriously trying to learn about them for several years. After reading every thread on this forum, reading every reference book, sitting with reputable dealers at shows and other places and studying in hand wraps believed to be both real and fake (including examples of the so-called "Wien fakes" and fakes supposedly coming "from Latvia" or other eastern places)...I am totally confused. (I have, by the way, intently studied and collected LW and KM uniforms for many years. Different areas, of course, but not THAT different.)

A few years ago, it was gospel here that wraps had to have "slanted" stitching in the cuff area (as opposed to "rectangular"). This was disproved by multiple period photos. Then, the number of rows of stitching attaching the collar could not be of the "thousand stitch" pattern, as this pattern was not used on TR uniforms. This has also been demonstrated, by comparison to other, known original, issue uniforms to KM personnel, to be incorrect.

Now, with this wrap, there are criticisms of possibly postwar tailoring techniques (even though the basic wrap is, apparently, conceded to be good). There is the contention of postwar added fake insignia.

I am starting to believe that, with the absolute exception of some pieces which can FACTUALLY demonstrated to be fake or inherently impossible, there are no real binding statements which can be made about pieces constructed entirely from period materials and using tailoring techniques which COULD have been employed pre-May, 1945. This is not to denigrate in any way those individuals who have established a name for themselves as "experts in the field" or to, in any way, pretend that wraps are not routinely faked. It just seems to me that, beyond a certain point, it all becomes speculation. This is, I'm convinced, why collectors only feel "safe" by collecting "textbook" pieces. My difficulty is that the "textbook" is, in fact, extremely slim when you step back and really look at it. The "field" we play on in collecting TR material is just too vast and there are too many manufacturers, and too many things we don't know and haven't yet seen, to feel overly sure about anything regarding uniforms (and many other things as well).

Didn't mean to rant or go off on a tangent.

[tgn]

Agreed. The wraps I have seen made in gabardine have had matching tabs made of the same fabric. The tabs attached to the subject wrap are reproductions in my opinion....

Not always the case. I have a very original ribbed material Spiess wrap that has normal wool tabs.

I agree with you on the tabs, though. They do not look original...

Tom

[tgn]

It just seems to me that, beyond a certain point, it all becomes speculation. This is, I'm convinced, why collectors only feel "safe" by collecting "textbook" pieces. My difficulty is that the "textbook" is, in fact, extremely slim when you step back and really look at it. The "field" we play on in collecting TR material is just too vast and there are too many manufacturers, and too many things we don't know and haven't yet seen, to feel overly sure about anything regarding uniforms (and many other things as well).

Very true and very well stated.

Tom