24th Pz Div Black Wrap Lt.

[CBSPERRY]

Some of you folks may have seen that I posted for sale my TDB and a CC in Bronze. The reason for this was that I put this on hold last week with Peter V. L. I have always been impressed with this hard fought cavalry turned panzer unit which was wiped off the books in the melee known as Stalingrad. The leaping horsemen was a hard driving group well known for strong sense of duty and fierce fighting capabilities. Hope you enjoy.

Chris.

[BrianMcC]

Chris,

Admired this wrap myself.

Please do us all a favor and post some pictures when you obtain it.

Is this your first purchase from Peter?

Brian

[CBSPERRY]

Hi Brian,

No this is my third purchase from Peter in the last few months ... I also purchased the Eisenbahn Tunic and the General Sohn Helmet as well . This has been an especially active year for me and I plan to post everything once I get it organized. I started the year with a bunch of pieces from Bill Shea and Helmut Weitze. and I have also Purchased from Peter as well . So far this wrap, a Gr Deutschland Named Pz Wrap. A GD Knights Cross winners Tunic the Eisenbahn Tunic, A beautiful KM Helmet on hold with Bill Shea and the Sohn Helmet. Not to mention a couple of pieces here and there from D. Neimann. I still have a long way to go to catch up to the Scott Pritchards of the world I have a pretty long list ... patience is a virtue but when I see something especially nice if I can swing it I get it . This has been my first year of active collecting and I have spent alot of time on this forum listening and observing from the experts as well as acquired an extensive library of good resources as well. This forum has been a major resource of expertise and its very much appreciated more than worth its weight in gold.

[Michel]

Hello Chris,

Have you more collar patches pictures (recto and verso) ?

Regards

Michel

[CBSPERRY]

Hi Michel I don't have the tunic yet its still with Peter I can ask him for more photos I am leaving for Mexico until next Tuesday so I can do it then.

Chris.

[CSP]

OK, Dude...post pics of the GD KC winner's tunic...and slow down....you are giving me a nose-bleed.

I saw Peter's gold-yellow piped tunic myself. I already have an NCO version...too expensive to try own two. I too, will be thrilled to see additional photos of it when you get it.

[Willi Z.]

Since many assumptions have been made about the intent of the words I had here earlier and I have no desire to turn this thread into a "Jerry Springer" show, and out of respect to Scott's moderation, I have deleted my comments. The sandbox is big enough for all of us to play in.

Willi

[Panzer]

Willi,
so what exactly are you hinting at? There are also many rare and desirable documents, medals and caps on the site.....should we all be concerned about those? Are they all suspect pieces from the East perhaps? Or just the tunics? I would love to hear the specifics!

Perhaps all the rare and exotic items on Witze's and Winkler's sites are also concerning you? Why stop at tunics....why not medals? Maybe you should be concerned about so much rare and desirable stuff at Detlev Neimann's?Look.....The war happened in Europe....not in some American garage sale. If you are dilligent enough and search in the right places, such exotic items are there....especially in the homes and attics of veterans and their families! I know Peter has TWO Norwegian Waffen SS veterans visiting him these last 2 days.....Perhaps what they bring to Peter should ALSO be "concerning" to you and everyone else?

Willi.....don't hide behind inuendo....it is a cowardly thing to do........either cough up specifics or sh#t up. I am so sick of the unsolicited opinions.....the ill informed opinions and the little pot-shots taken all over these forums that I really wonder if I will bother reading them.....there is more stupid comments like that one than good helpful infomation. I wonder how many people considering collecting look and then just run away to collect model trains or whatever because they see so much rubbish and fear mongering. It is unsubstantiated inuendo such as this that undermines our hobby! You should know better.....especially for a "moderator"....more like an "aggitator"!

Wade K.

[Mike C]

Hello,

Let me declare my bona fides up front - I have done business with PvL and am very satisfied. Is he perfect - no. Have I sent stuff back (and received a prompt, full and courteous refund) - yes. So I do have a bias.

Currently PvL has 28 tunics for sale on his site; Bill Shea (another dealer for whom I have tremendous respect) has about 10 more. We can debate the respective value of each site's offerings - but I would submit the Heer panzer wrapper that is the current subject of debate is less rare than, say the NCO assault gun wrapper (the second of two he had), currently on Bill's site. The RK tunic that PvL sold was rare and wonderful - but didn't Bill recently sell two RK trager tunics that came from the infamous Boonzaier? It would seem that Bill warrants the same criticism as Peter - how can a dealer so consistently turn up superb pieces (not to mention the killer medals that Bill is currently offering - poor Peter only has one RK group, albeit with a Detlev Niemann expertise) and still be one of the good guys?

A casual posting such as yours, on an open forum no less - without reference to a specific point of concern - has done two things: it has probably had a direct negative impact on PvLs business and it has likely raised doubts in Chris's mind on his new purchase, if not souring the deal completely.

I understand that PvL routinely seeks opinions of advanced collectors (many of whom frequent this site) before he lists items - I personally have been asked for my opinion on some SS camo pieces (not that I a consider myself an expert). The evidence suggests that he is honestly trying to eradicate any fakes from his offerings - but of course no dealer will ever be completely successful.

I do not know the reason for your post - perhaps it was a general warning for all collectors to do their homework. If so, it was done at the potentially costly expense of one dealer. If it was a direct criticism of PvL - then to do so without unequivocal reference to a specific point(s) is low.

Mike Cessford

[CSP]

I have some strong personal opinions on this - and some very good friends mentioned and contributing, but this entry to the thread is purely and totally from a moderator's responsibility.

Without pointing out specifics (no pun intended) we need more focus on the uniform pictured versus those involved in the sale of, purchase of, or commenting on...the piece or each other. Not because of the direction the conversation took with Willi's post - we often discuss dealers, or because of anyone mentioned or anything said - basically this is a place for opinions...but just because collectively, we are not heading smoothly in the direction this thread has taken.

Recommend we get constructive, leave the thread alone, or start talking bad about Manions - where we will all agree. Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuust kidding!

[Chris Liontas]

Recommend we get constructive, leave the thread alone, or start talking bad about Manions - where we will all agree. Juuuuuuuuuuuuuuust kidding!

Manion's Sucks!!

There I started us off on the right foot

[CBSPERRY]

Hi folks sorry I have not been around. I was in Mexico and so did not see everything until just now. I have read through the thread and appreciate the comments of everyone on this piece. Yes it is rare. I don't honestly believe that Willi's intent was to denegrate Peter or his business and I take his hesitancy in that vein. I believe that it is important to recognize that simply because something is rare on a dealer's site doesn't automatically negate that it is authentic. But it is always the intelligent person that regards something skeptically. I am not soured by the statements above I know that sometimes everyone has differing opinions and what I would like to do is to thoroughly get detailed photos of the piece when it comes into my hands and let everyone have at it. My intent is that I don't mind critiques and thats How I continue to learn in this hobby from everyone's perspective so that I can render my own comments and opinions accordingly. I appreciate EVERYONE's input on this matter. Scott I am starting a separate thread now for the RKT GD piece.