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**merdock** · 09-24-2003, 01:55 PM

back; it looks and feels right.

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kreta b.jpg (38.4 KB, 202 views)

**merdock** · 09-24-2003, 01:57 PM

close up back of lettering.

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kreta close up b.jpg (51.2 KB, 202 views)

**Willi Z.** · 09-24-2003, 05:38 PM

There are so many variations to these that it is tough to be absolute in regards to saying one is bad. I do like several things on this one. The details of the lettering are very nicely done. Certain letters have thicker and thinner portions to them. The right ones look the right way, if that makes any sense. The repros usually screw this up. I Like the backing and the details of the lettering on the back. I think the aging and wear look natural. The only thing I noticed in a negative sense is that the left scroll pattern is not centered, and seems to be more grounded near the bottom. Could just be the way this one was made.

Willi

**SgtB** · 09-24-2003, 09:35 PM

I agree with Willi...

...the only thing I don't care for, at least from these pics, is the off-centered
lettering. I especially like the diagonal weave of the cloth. Every original
I've handled has this. Still, really good fakes of these have been out for
awhile and more opinions are needed...

**CSP** · 09-24-2003, 10:32 PM

Some years back a number of KRETA cufftitles came from some kind of lot that had suffered some fire damage. I do not know when or where or how or why this is so, but several appeared for sale. They were in various states of damage.

Second point is that some late 70s and early to mid 80s repros were given away most readily by a color of gold that was not a deep gold, but almost a washed out gold. As well, the color of the cloth tended to a dirty white. However, smoke damage to the aformentioned ones tended to give the same look to some extent to the originals.

I have seen several of these crooked embroideries on what I thought were perfectly good originals. This one looks markedly so.

My only other observations on this one is that from the first photo the word seems to go from tall letters to short letters and back to tall...this may be what Willi has also mentioned. Almost like a banner. If so...this would concern me greatly as a pretty clear indication of a bad piece.

Not sure this give you a definitive yes or no, but I'd prefer to see it laid out straigh in some different photos.

**teka** · 09-25-2003, 01:35 AM

Hi Scott,
do you speak from the depot near Munich? I've also been told of that story of fire, I don't know if it's true but there were also a lot of Afrika cufftitles, there's why they are pretty common in Germany. All the big dealers have done a "stock" or reserve that they will sell in the next years... One or 2 per month...
It is those story?
Cheers
Teka

**CSP** · 09-25-2003, 01:03 PM

Teka:
I know of these burned AFRIKA cuffbands as well, but do not know if the KRETA cuffbands came from the same Munich fire you mention. In fact, I think at one point Bill Shea had some of these AFRIKA bands, as did Helmut Weitze and even Detlev Niemann as I remember. I just know that I saw at least a half dozen burned/damaged KRETA bands back in the early 1990s as I recall and the common explanation was a storage location fire. Mohawk Arms had one, Petersen had two as I recall, I saw them at at least one or two collector shows and they turned up in the old Der Gaulieter publication for sale.
The best repro I have ever seen was let down by a light sahde of gold embroidery...not the deep golden yellow color of a true original issue award.

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