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**phild** · 06-23-2008, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by corporalSteiner View Post

hi all...can anyone kindly clarify the degree of variety found in wehrmacht issue service shirts? (collarless white and/or collared grey, green, pocketed, pocket- less, etc)

were they always stamped?

many thanks in advance....

I don't think that this topic has been fully documented either on this forum or in any reference book. As far as i am concerned it will never be able to be completly documented as I think that the slight variations were very extensive and some are lost to time.....and I am not even considering the private purchase shirts which were fully autorized and very often worn and are IMO 'textbook" legit WWII shirts.

I can at this time identify about 6 to 8 major variations for issue/contract type shirts worn by the Heer...this number will triple (or more) when extended for the whole Whermacht.

**Johnny R** · 06-23-2008, 09:32 AM

As Phil notes that would almost be a life's work. The shirts have more variations than any other clothing item. There are basic types but many many variations of patterns and colors etc. especially with the Army and SS items plus as Phil notes, the private purchase, higher quality shirts and they also used captured stocks etc.

nores should be notes

**phild** · 06-23-2008, 10:13 AM

I will add that I found that it is a big mistake but a common one among collectors to look for a handfull of characteristics to try and fit all original shirts into to determine originality. Also the fakers have LONG picked up on this and most fake will have these "textbook" features that collectors look for and these characteristics are actually myths not true with all orginal shirts!

Some of them are as follows.

1. Originals were always very long. Not true! Many fakes come down to around the knees...this is comical. Many original variations were made in shorter lengths as the war got more advanced...in other words some types were fairly long but not all.

2. All issue shirts were 4 button fronts.....not true, 5 buttons can also be found...especially on some of the knit woolen types that were made. Some Luft. tropical types and maybe others buttoned all the down.

3. It is a waste of time to try and measure pocket depths and flap depths or sizes or button spaceing or pocket pleat sizes as these had huge variation between the real ones.

4. Not all shirts were constructed the same in terms of how and where they were seamed or re-enforced. Some had back yokes and half circle shoulder re-enforcment and some had small double pleats at each rear shoulder some had double seams with a second piece of material down each arm and many other small deatails....but these traits were not universal but are almost ALWAYS found on high end fakes these days!

5. Knit type shirts were generally contructed differently than fabric cloth shirts as the the way that they were cut and seamed needed to be differnent.

6. The best thing to try and learn is the materials that these shirts used. Even though the variation is almost endless there is generally a problem with trying to acurately recreate wartime shirt fabrics today! Most of the time modern shirt fabrics can not be made to the same level of substitute fibers of wartime fabrics and knits. Avoid high cotton content especially on a gray or feldgrau shirt represented as wartime...these were geneally high in rayon or for some PZ shirts (prior to late 43 and 44) made of thin wool knit.

There could be pages and pages written about these and photos as well but I doubt that many people would want to wade thru it.

I will say in the end that although there were certainly variations in collar shape and width sizes between original styles the earlier very narrow and pointed collars (both attached and detachable) are for some reason not often faked and/ or faked well on German shirts! I don't know why, just what I have found. Most always when I see a collar that is made exactly right the shirt proves to be a good one. I'm sure this will change as well in time!!

**corporalSteiner** · 06-23-2008, 11:04 AM

hat tipped deeply to members for such generosity and depth of answer here...to agree then, the subject is wide and useful guidelines toward identity are duly noted...

is there any value guide to these items as known at the moment? what are these items' market value today?

thanks in advance.

**phild** · 06-23-2008, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by corporalSteiner View Post

hat tipped deeply to members for such generosity and depth of answer here...to agree then, the subject is wide and useful guidelines toward identity are duly noted...

is there any value guide to these items as known at the moment? what are these items' market value today?

thanks in advance.

Most all of the good uniform references (even going back to B.Davis...the pioneer work on Heer uniforms, Angola, Edwards/Pruett PZ uniforms and many others) provide some good information and photos of shirts....and most of these books do not exactly repeat each other so there is some different information in each.

I think that RelicHunter as the most inventory on original shirts of any dealer that I have seen. Real ones from any dealer are not cheap, but we live in a time of 5k FJ helmets (for the common type) and 4k FJ boots, 10-20k SS officer tunics and 2k single decal Heer helmets and m-43 tunics...so what do we expect?

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Wehrmacht issue shirts...what varieties existed?

Wehrmacht issue shirts...what varieties existed?

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