Where do all the fakes go?

[Bill Gaynor]

They eventually find there way to Chet Sowersby tackle box, he uses them for fishing weights . The stream beds out here on the West Coast are littered with combat badges and medals .
Bill

[billmunny]

eBay, Manion's, Charlie Snyder's, Third (Turd) Reich Depot

and the various shows around the country...and now, and then, they get recycled on the estand. but its rare and our eagle-eyed members sound the alarm right away (e.g. a certain dot pattern camo wrap that was posted on the Forum for opinions after being sold as a repro and then eventually sold as real...ah, the cycle of life).

[andrewt]

and the various shows around the country...and now, and then, they get recycled on the estand. but its rare and our eagle-eyed members sound the alarm right away (e.g. a certain dot pattern camo wrap that was posted on the Forum for opinions after being sold as a repro and then eventually sold as real...ah, the cycle of life).

Hey Guys.

Again, if anyone ever has a question about anything on the Manion's website please do not hesitate to contact me directly and we will get it pulled down to take another look at it.

Vonn and Craig are working hard to make sure nothing gets through, but as you know it can be a tough job. We always appreciate experienced opinion, and thanks to everyone who has helped us out in the past.

Andrew
866.626.4661 - ext. 1018
alturner@manions.com

[Chris D.]

please excuse my ignorance but am I to understand that the regimental depot is not to be trusted? I always assumed that the sites linked off the WAF were considered "ok"?

[NTZ]

The hobby is in a sad state dealer wise with these things. There is one dealer that gets his nuts kicked about every week on the forum that has a good one. It was a smoke troops tunic that was for sale at the SOS. I looked at it, IMHO the tunic was 100% put together. The guy was asking $1,600 but said he would take $1,200. It is now on a high profile dealers site as “untouched” and at $2,900. This is the kind of crap going on out there. I am sure it comes with a nice “out of the woodwork” story too.

[robertdmountfor]

man, there is strong anti-regimental bias around here.

not with me.....the others, for some reason have axes to grind with Malcolm.

[Jeff V]

please excuse my ignorance but am I to understand that the regimental depot is not to be trusted? I always assumed that the sites linked off the WAF were considered "ok"?

Not referring to the site sponsor Regimental Depot, rather a certain site in England. best wishes,
jeff

[Mike Bollow]

The poor quality fakes (to a dedicated collector that is) go to ebay. Bogus FJ helmets and SS knick-knacks go for amazing sums to the uneducated masses.

The quality fakes are sold on Manions in their reproduction section. You can find some amazing fakes there that would fool most people, and the best ones aren't cheap either!

Mike

[airborne_steve]

I know a guy that has dozens (10 times bigger than my humble collection) of tunics in his house, all displayed on mannequins with belts and equipment etc. However, 80% of his collection was highend repros.

He was buying his collection through a "broker" whom he trusted. I looked at his collection and pointed out the fakes and offered to show him my tunics and gear, but he thought I was an amateur collector and didn't want to hear anymore?

My point here is that there are some people out there who literally have 100s of fake tunics, and think they are all original. These are the same people that don't have time for the forum.

Steve

[Johnny R]

I know a guy that has dozens (10 times bigger than my humble collection) of tunics in his house, all displayed on mannequins with belts and equipment etc. However, 80% of his collection was highend repros.

He was buying his collection through a "broker" whom he trusted. I looked at his collection and pointed out the fakes and offered to show him my tunics and gear, but he thought I was an amateur collector and didn't want to hear anymore?

My point here is that there are some people out there who literally have 100s of fake tunics, and think they are all original. These are the same people that don't have time for the forum.

Steve

, and some that are on the forums but do but do not study items carefully or think because they have a lot of money for pricey items they are "experts". I know dealers who have lists of people they sell things to that are never posted on the websites. Many named tunics like this for U boat officers and pilots etc. For the price of one bad tunic you could buy ever reference book published. Sort of sad, I have had the same experience with other people and collections full of junk. In sum a lot of fakes are in collections.

[Willi Z.]

I know a guy that has dozens (10 times bigger than my humble collection) of tunics in his house, all displayed on mannequins with belts and equipment etc. However, 80% of his collection was highend repros.

He was buying his collection through a "broker" whom he trusted. I looked at his collection and pointed out the fakes and offered to show him my tunics and gear, but he thought I was an amateur collector and didn't want to hear anymore?

My point here is that there are some people out there who literally have 100s of fake tunics, and think they are all original. These are the same people that don't have time for the forum.

Steve

BINGO! That is the problem. Most, and I do mean most, collectors do not know what they are collecting. Some say 5% of collectors have 95% of the knowledge and the other 95% have the remaining 5% of the knowledge. I agree with those numbers for shows but not based on those who actively participate in forums. For example; I know a local guy (a closet collector who is also hooked by his "broker" friend who bad mouths the skilled dealers and collectors) who has a basement filled with fake SS, SS Panzer, Heer Panzer & HG Panzer uniforms. The few times he goes to shows he walks away muttering "you guys don't know what you are talking about."

Most, but not all, dealers and auction houses are in way over their heads. They can't keep up with the fakes and what can be done today but that doesn't seem to slow them down. The crucial factor is determining which don't know what they are doing and who pass their lack of knowledge on to unsuspecting and uninformed collectors, as compared to those who don't care and know they are ripping off collectors. There are dealers who have made fortunes in this hobby and know they have been screwing people for decades and they don't care. They even brag about it........trust me. And even worse, they spread disinformation in an attempt to discredit the honest dealers and the respected collectors in an attempt to keep their loyal customers "hooked."

Again, I hold collectors most accountable. The best customer is an educated customer. That is were it all starts.

I don't want to pick on Manions but since a gentlemen from Manion's is here on this thread I just want to comment. Why should we advanced collectors (who have dedicated and spend considerable amounts of time and $$ to learn) "volunteer" to help such a large money making machine authenticate their items? I have tried to speak to Manion's staff at the SOS and Max and they don't want to hear it. I will not mention all the fake FJ helmets I have seen there. But, I will say this. A few months ago they sold an original and minty FJ helmet as a fake.....go figure! And, I used to eagerly await their catalog with great anticipation in the early '90s. Again, I have just used this as an example.

I could list dealer after dealer who don't know, or even care, what they are doing.....

And, there are a number of dealers who I trust without question and who go well out of their way to make sure what they are selling is original. But, they remained focused on their areas of expertese.

[jacquesf]

Most, but not all, dealers and auction houses are in way over their heads. They can't keep up with the fakes and what can be done today but that doesn't seem to slow them down. The crucial factor is determining which don't know what they are doing and who pass their lack of knowledge on to unsuspecting and uninformed collectors, as compared to those who don't care and know they are ripping off collectors. There are dealers who have made fortunes in this hobby and know they have been screwing people for decades and they don't care. They even brag about it........trust me. And even worse, they spread disinformation in an attempt to discredit the honest dealers and the respected collectors in an attempt to keep their loyal customers "hooked."

I could list dealer after dealer who don't know, or even care, what they are doing..... "

This is an absolutely 100% correct assessment. The arrogance of these dealers is mind boggling, one high end dealer has referred to his wealthy, uninformed clients as cash cows. The big problem is that they sell stuff that they just don't know, with a COA. That is their safety valve, when and if they get exposed, they just refund the offended buyer and sell the item to the next sucker (most of the times at a profit) . This vicious circle just carry on until the item stops coming back. Jacques

[Johnny R]

This is an absolutely 100% correct assessment. The arrogance of these dealers is mind boggling, one high end dealer has referred to his wealthy, uninformed clients as cash cows. The big problem is that they sell stuff that they just don't know, with a COA. That is their safety valve, when and if they get exposed, they just refund the offended buyer and sell the item to the next sucker (most of the times at a profit) . This vicious circle just carry on until the item stops coming back. Jacques[/QUOTE]

These dealers doing this are nothing less than criminals commiting fraud. I feel sorry for the "cashcows" unless they are arrogant and think they are experts because they supposedly have such high end original personality items etc.