Heer Assault Gunner tabs question?????

[Allectus]

Hello, I have this picture of a Heer Officer wearing an Assault Gun wrap with what seems to be some strange looking blank collar tabs. I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out if such collar tabs existed or what these may be and also does anyone know who this person is? Thank you very much for all your help everyone!

Brett

[img=http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/4/1/10/t_RKWm_6779366.jpg]

[B. N. Singer]

Hello, I have this picture of a Heer Officer wearing an Assault Gun wrap with what seems to be some strange looking blank collar tabs. I was wondering if anyone could help me figure out if such collar tabs existed or what these may be and also does anyone know who this person is? Thank you very much for all your help everyone!

Brett

[img=http://img28.picoodle.com/img/img28/4/1/10/t_RKWm_6779366.jpg]

Not strange at all. These are most likely the "early" factory collar tabs (red piped) that had skulls applied in a similar fashion to a Pz collar tab.

B. N. Singer

[Luca Ongaro]

Collar tabs could be pionier.
Luca

[Luca Ongaro]

Definitly artillery officer, I have not seen the red piping on the visor, poor eyes
Common tabs however.
Luca

[Allectus]

Thank you both for the information! Should he have attached the skulls then to the tabs or was it ok for them to go without? Did only the black panzer wraps have the skulls? I figure that this photo was taken immediately after his RK ceremony so I would assume that his uniform would be in top order and correct. Is there anyone that has any idea on who he could be?? Thanks again!

Brett

[Luca Ongaro]

Tabs look to me mid/late war time production.
Brett, the skulls were always present on black PZ tunic, on assault gun wraps if I remember correctly was forbidden worn skulls after 1943.
Luca

[Allectus]

Thanks Luca! That is something I never knew before. Assault gun/Panzer items I do not know very much about so im always glad to learn something new. Is there a particular uniform item that I could post another picture up of that may reveal roughly the date of this photo? Is there multiple variation of the wrap that came out at different times or perhaps other insignia that may give it away? I have the whole photo and this is only a cropped out section. Thanks again,

Brett

[derka]

hello,

Brett,
trying to stay simple on a complicate subject :
acording to Allgemeine Heersesmitteilungen (A.H.M.) n°684 of may 29, 1940, assault gun crews who wore the feldgrau version of special uniform for armored troops should have colar tabs as those shown on your pic, without skulls on it and with red piping.
but in fact, it seems that when this uniform was later allowed for artillerie or PAK auf Sfl. crews, skulls were worn on colar tabs by most members of those vehicles.
A.H.M. n°134 of january, 1943, skulls had to be removed from colar tabs, and replaced by standart litzen seewn on colar tabs, and officers had to wear same standart colar tabs than on their tunics.
but this is only official orders and theory, as several variations can be observed on period pics, including skulls worn on colar tabs until the end of the conflict (particulary in independant Sfl. PAK units with pink piping), even if black and white is not easy for correct identification.
so for your pic, if this officer strictly followed regulation orders,
the pic was taken during the period between may 1940 and january 1943,
but this is only an hypothesis...
i don't know who he was,
and i can't read the numbers on his shoulder boards, for the unit he belonged to at that time.
regards
derka

[CollectRussia]

Nice photo Brett, a lot of collectors bit the dust when it was up for grabs on eBay.

I'm just wondering since you have the photo in hand, and ask if such tabs "existed" do you suspect the photo to be altered or fake?

Dave

[Tim Curley]

After studying your photo, the numbers on the shoulder boards may be "303" for Assault Gun Battalion 303. It was formed late in the war, 1943, and sent into action in 1944, ending up I think in Hungary.