panzer wrapper thoughts

[Nico C]

With the recent thread about the panzer wrapper for sale on the e-stand on my mind, I wonder where to find a good, honest wrapper, without spending $8000-$10000 orso.
I was thinking about the e-stnad wrapper myself, but hooked off after I read all the replies.
It seems difficult these days to find a honest tunic for a reasonable( ) price.
Weitze has one for sale, but after reading the 'GD-waffenrock" thread, my appetite for Weitze stuff is really low.
Collector Guild also has one for sale, but it seems to be restored after the war. And $4500 for a restored tunic, I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong and that is the price for such a tunic and i need to pay $8000 for an untouched one...

Some thought are welcome.

Thanks,

Nico

[Glenn McInnes]

I think member phild summed it up nicely as what you should expect to pay in this thread,post #14

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=260624


One thing he did not mention price wise was an original wrapper with original factory applied tabs but a replaced eagle. Many of the earlier piped and unpiped wrappers had hand sewn eagles,so it can be sometimes hard to tell if done correct as to when it was applied.



Glenn

[Nico C]

Thanks, Glenn

[Gene]

Of course, Luftwaffe and SS wrappers are worth more than Heer wrappers, just to clarify your cost concerns.

[phild]

Many of the earlier piped and unpiped wrappers had hand sewn eagles,so it can be sometimes hard to tell if done correct as to when it was applied.

Glenn

I agree with the above very much. The hand sewn eagle is very often found on the earlier wraps.

In my opinion the collecting and valuation of PZ wraps is very inmature compared with other items in the same general price category such as FJ helms, W-SS tunics and RKs (I realize that these are now generally higher than wraps however they tend to run within a few thousand dollars of each other). Just keeping this discussion confined to Heer black PZ wraps I can say that the so-called 1st models are by far the hardest to find. The second models with the piped collars are not really much easier...but are a little more often encountered. In my experience the factory applied collar piping was dropped (from application, not wear and use!) in early 1939. Most 39 dated wraps are un-piped and show no signs of ever having piping applied. I have never seen a post 39 dated pz wrap with what I considered factory applied collar piping.

A number of wraps exist with period applied collar piping that is not factory application but rather done at the desire of the wearer. Again these are not common but they do exist.

Most officer set up contract wraps and a fair number of NCO wraps were period shortend (often 3 button flys) and often had other fitting and lining modifications. It was very stylish during the period to wear short jackets and this is true of civilian suite coats, 4 pocket tunics, and can be seen with the Ike jackets, British BD jackets and German M44 jackets. Most officers and NCOs that actually owned these wraps wanted them to fit and look good even on the field worn wraps.

Most EM did not actually own their wrap, it was Heer property and hence could not be modified..at least by regulation. Some EMs were allowed to buy a wrap (more true in the pre-war days and very early war time) and these can be found also modified like the above.

Many private owned wraps were "left at home" and owners were KIA before they got cycled into field wear, hence this is the origin of most of the earlier material that we find today. A lot of 43 and later wraps never got issued...as is true with a lot of other types of German items and these were in various storage/supply facilities in 44 and 45 to be taken by Allied troops as bring backs and or floated around Europe for decades after the war and ended up for sale to collectors.

In my experience, true obvious combat/heavy field worn wraps are very rare items.

Trousers are much rarer than the wraps themselves. Maybe 1 pair of trousers to every 10 or 20 wraps (just a guess there), IMO trousers are very much worth having with a wrap they set off the entire uniform.

There have been some excellent references done on PZ uniforms, however there is still a level (or two!) of detail that has yet to be published. One problem is that blk pz uniforms were one of the earliest types of German cloth items to be carefully faked and there have been maybe dozens of different sources and variations of fakes of this clothing over the last 30 years. Many of these have made it into references as legit items and this is dangerous to newer collectors.

[Richard P]

Phil,

You obviously had a few spare moments. The collecting community thanks you for laying down some concise points on wrapper collecting. I hope quite a few collectors print this out so they can refer to it before jumping to some of the poorly formed collector absolutes on wrappers that are expressed from time to time on these forums.

Richard