Panzer Overcoat - Opinions Comments

[Brad Posey]

Here is an overcoat I picked up this weekend. Evreything looks good to me with the exception of a few replaced or missing buttons and the sew in type shoulder boards have been cut off.

On the inside are the usual arsenal stamps along with a unit stamp:

2/ Pz Regt 11 and a sewn in name tag for:

Panzerschutze Franz Koehne
2/ Pz - Rgt. 11

What should I do here? I would like to replace the shoulder boards if this is supposed to have shoulder boards. And if so, what type should it have? It looks like the top part of the board is a dark green like on the Waffenrock boards and the piping appears to be pink although could be red. If so is this a wartime mistake or someone later added artillery boards and then cut them off?

From the looks of the inside of the arms it does not appear to have been tampered with and I did not pay too much for this so I doubt anything was done to this to bring a higher price.

I would appreciate all of your thoughts or comments on this.

Thanks!!

Brad

[Brad Posey]

pic 2

[Brad Posey]

I am not sure if this is pink or fadded red.

[Brad Posey]

Last pic.

Thanks for any comments on this.

Brad

[TONY Q.W.]

It looks like the boards are period applyed. I would personaly leave it as that. If you change them with a new pair, then you would have a 'put together' coat with less value, IMHO.

[Johnny R]

Nice named coat. There was a man who died in 1945 that matches his name. He was in the same general area as the 11th was earlier. He died in Hospital so there is no way to know how long he was there or when he was wounded. He is buried in Gusev Russia which before was Gumbinnen, Prussia.

http://www.volksbund.de/graebersuche...7C9F0D29DB4F5C

The stubs look Panzer pink to me. Ideally to restore it you would put green boards with pink embroidered "11s" and silver buttons with "2s" for his company.

Nice find.

[Soldat de Fer]

Hello
That is a really nice coat , even if the straps are removed , it is still a uncommon one to find , and yes , coat with their original boards are not common.
I agree , leave it as it is , untouched.
Regards
P-Y

[Johnny R]

Grave

Ah, you spelled his name incorrectly in the thread. There are a couple of matches for Franz Kohne but none KIA near the 11ths positions, Ukraine, Stalingrad, and one near Riga. He might have transfered etc.

Restoring it is only an option, I don't have any problems doing this when you use orignal thread and insignia but other collectors obviously do not agree with me.

It is more likely the boards were cut off after the War. eg. the boards might have been cut off in the 1980s by an insignia collector (very sadly this used to happen a lot), IMO you are not really destroying some historical artifact by replacing them.

In the end it is a personal choice.

[Brad Posey]

Thanks for all of the comments and opinions.

I really would like to have it restored without creating a "put together" coat. I would like to agree that if I could ever find a good set of 11th Regt boards and use original thread it could be restored without doing significant harm to it. I do know that it is common practice with uniforms that are much older than WW II. I have seen US Civil War coats that looked like a rag and after retoration the value increased dramatically. I think a lot of problems occur with WW II uniforms because people turn ordinary uniforms into things they wre not like SS or added awards, and different unit affiliation and so on.

Can anyone tell me anything about Panzer Regt. 11?

Thanks again for all of your comments - they are greatly appreciated.

Brad

[Luca Ongaro]

It looks like the boards are period applyed. I would personaly leave it as that. If you change them with a new pair, then you would have a 'put together' coat with less value, IMHO.

Agree with you Tony
This is really a nice coat I would have in my collection
Luca

[Johnny R]

Restoring Uniforms

Would you drive a 1965 Mustang around without the doors on it? I think it is a personal choice. I enjoy restoring tunics and do not resell them. I think it is up to the owner. The 11th Panzer was part of the 1st Light Division and later the 6th Panzer Division.

In German:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...ter/PR11-R.htm

[airborne_steve]

Great coat! No, I mean, it's a great coat! I would love to have that coat in my collection.

Cheers Steve

[JOHN JONES]

Hi Brad,
Its a nice coat, and I think you should leave as is.
I am not sure if the original boards had the unit number on them ,
but there may be a clue in how they are cut.
I think most true collectors would not remove from a coat and destroy
history, unless the coat had very bad damage and moth.
Let also admit there are people who would, but they would have ciut
open at the shoulder seam, Those have been hacked off.

Its not impossible that a Allied trooper who had a bread bag full of such stuff,
spotted a guy in a long line of Germans dragging himself to the POW cage,
and faniced something different that the grey greens with white / red etc.

I also saw a Pathe news feature about German POW's arriving at a camp
in the UK, as they passed through the gate, MP's were stopping every man
and cutting off their straps, they then focused on them piled up in a steel
bucket ........
Your coat looks like its come out of the woodwork, so I think that is how it
has been since the owner returned home.

Cheers......... John.

[Johnny R]

Straps

They cut off the straps-one per man to get a head count. I would be very surprised if they were cutting off both unless they put them in seperate buckets to get two counts. This happened very often especially towards the end of the War when there were mass surrenders.

Like I said it is a personal choice to restore or not. I prefer hard facts and what can be proven over fiction.

[JOHN JONES]

I think think it showed both being cut off as a sort of humiliation
thing, A lot surrendered in garments with no straps and I am sure they
did more than 2 counts.

Cheers,
John.