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**Johnny R** · 07-01-2007, 04:31 PM

Wrap

You should put this in a box and mail it to me immediately.

Nice wrap and if all the insignia is real, and I believe it is, it could have only belonged to two people:

This fellow:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...er/SchulzA.htm

Or one Oberst Rothenburg

Here is the unit history:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...enter/PR25.htm

**Ron C.** · 07-01-2007, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by jhodgson View Post

You should put this in a box and mail it to me immediately.

Nice wrap and if all the insignia is real, and I believe it is, it could have only belonged to two people:

This fellow:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...er/SchulzA.htm

Or one Oberst Rothenburg

Here is the unit history:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...enter/PR25.htm

I believe all the insignia is real.....I know I never did anything to it, and it all looks real to me. Whoever the fellow was, he had to be a rather small man I would think. The chest form I had it on was a very small one and it fit tight on it. I just wish I could remember for sure where I got it, or paid for it. I think it cost me in the mid-70's between the equivalent of $100-$200. I also had a former SS officer, and a couple of other German vets, who occasionally picked up some things for me from their friends........but I really don't think it came from one of them. That is the problem with getting older........some things are clear as a bell, but others totally escape.

Thanks,
Ron

**panzer_erc** · 07-01-2007, 05:26 PM

For me the collar patches could be replaced, rayon piping was not used in this early tunic pattern. Otherwise, this is a very great tunic, congratulations. It******180;s hard to find a first model with pink piping around the collar.

**Mike TM** · 07-01-2007, 05:36 PM

Very nice, the frame with crosses, can you post a front phot of it?
Mike

**B. N. Singer** · 07-01-2007, 05:41 PM

Original insignias and 1st pattern jacket. When it was "put together" is more difficult to tell from those pictures.

B. N. Singer

**Ron C.** · 07-01-2007, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by GEPRUFT View Post

Very nice, the frame with crosses, can you post a front phot of it?
Mike

Is this what you are meaning?

Ron

This is another photo of the mat board out of the frame taken on my deck in spotty shade.

**Soldat de Fer** · 07-01-2007, 08:33 PM

Hello
Well the wrapper is 100% for sure. IMO the shoulder board are also 100% to the wrapper and they are a perfect match to the pipping around the collar, I am not sure about the eagle ( when it was applied that is) , I would expect it to be on a darker wool
The awards loops looks original ( notice the different thread used , added as the awards were earned) , the patch was added later , as it does look newer however it was neatly applied. The PZ collar patches , were IMO either reapplied or replaced at some point , the pipping does not match the use/ageing seen on the collar or the shoulder boards and the skull do not appear to have any dirt or dust accumulation.
A beautiful wrapper none the less .
Best Regards
Pierre-Yves

**Richard P** · 07-01-2007, 09:11 PM

Ron,
Could you at least post a crappy piece once in a while? Surely you have a stinker hidden somewhere among all the killer items you post? I am in agreement with Sol de Fer, nice 100% wrapper. I have had a generals wrapper with a similar box style marking with a cross type emblem in it. I don't believe it had unit markings though. Again, I agree with SdF on the boards and piping, nice wool all the way down to the weave on both. Typically the tab piping would match the collar piping, so a hands on look at the back of the collar would probably answer that question, possibly damaged tabs replaced at some point. The tab rayon piping exhibits wear and dirt, war time change or not may never be known. I concur on the award loops with SdF too, exactly what I would expect for a long worn tunic and field modification.
The breast eagle is possibly kosher, I do have a named pz general's tailored wrap where they used a Heer standard general's breast eagle, although its on very dark bottle green and you almost can't tell. Both the eagle and German Cross are very nicely applied as would be expected. We panzer collectors do like to see the breast eagle and the DC on the black panzer backgrounds...but I seriously doubt a combat soldier would really give a hoot and use whats available. From the photos, all original insignia and I doubt any serious tampering done without solid visual evidence. All armchair observations of course, and I would gladly take it in on loan if its out of place in your collection.

Sincerely,

Richard P

**Ron C.** · 07-01-2007, 09:40 PM

Originally posted by Richard P View Post

Ron,
Could you at least post a crappy piece once in a while? Surely you have a stinker hidden somewhere among all the killer items you post? I am in agreement with Sol de Fer, nice 100% wrapper. I have had a generals wrapper with a similar box style marking with a cross type emblem in it. I don't believe it had unit markings though. Again, I agree with SdF on the boards and piping, nice wool all the way down to the weave on both. Typically the tab piping would match the collar piping, so a hands on look at the back of the collar would probably answer that question, possibly damaged tabs replaced at some point. The tab rayon piping exhibits wear and dirt, war time change or not may never be known. I concur on the award loops with SdF too, exactly what I would expect for a long worn tunic and field modification.
The breast eagle is possibly kosher, I do have a named pz general's tailored wrap where they used a Heer standard general's breast eagle, although its on very dark bottle green and you almost can't tell. Both the eagle and German Cross are very nicely applied as would be expected. We panzer collectors do like to see the breast eagle and the DC on the black panzer backgrounds...but I seriously doubt a combat soldier would really give a hoot and use whats available. From the photos, all original insignia and I doubt any serious tampering done without solid visual evidence. All armchair observations of course, and I would gladly take it in on loan if its out of place in your collection.

Sincerely,

Richard P

Richard,

Thanks. I can't really say either when the insignia was applied etc., or why they used the type they did. I know that when I was in the military I used the type of insignia I wanted to.....even though it was non-regulation, or what the tailor shop had on hand. The only thing I can say about the color is this:

There are no signs that this cap was taken apart ever, and there are no stitches through the lining. The vent rivets are also feldgrau in color. So I conclude it was made that way. Maybe they didn't have any of the proper ones at the time. Like you say, I doubt that it would have made that much difference to a soldier, or he would rather have that eagle as opposed to none at all.........don't know.

Thanks for the comments and compliments

. I do have and have had some crappy stuff....actually I have posted some, but I got rid of a lot of it when I sold most of my stuff in about 1986 and went inactive in the collecting pursuit. I am just posting stuff now to try to update information on it in case my family wants to sell it after I die.

Ron

**Richard P** · 07-02-2007, 02:28 AM

Ron,

First off...don't die! At least not anytime soon, we enjoy your postings too much. I have a couple of very similiar E.M. caps with the factory sewn insignia on the grey/green backgrounds too. Very nice cap by the way, it seems you can never quite have too many panzer overseas caps as I keep buying them. I doubt very much a guy seeing that much armored combat would worry that his national emblem and bravery award was on a grey/green or black background. Since it is a first pattern wrapper maybe it predates when there was much in the way of black background bullion badges and awards made especially for panzer wraps. He also could have stopped wearing that wrapper when he got his new tailor made second or third pattern wrap. I'm teasing about the crappy stuff...anyone that has collected for any length of time has some. Your hats and uniforms are consistantly some of the nicest shared. Thanks!!

Richard P

**ibencsik** · 07-02-2007, 01:13 PM

cong...

Hi! Nice peaces , congratulation!!!Very rare!!!!No question Wh wrap.Thats it .

**Bob Hritz** · 07-02-2007, 01:52 PM

That is a panzer tunic and overseas cap that I would love to own. Wonderful pieces, Ron.

Bob Hritz

**Mike Davis** · 07-02-2007, 02:08 PM

Great uniform and cap Ron. It is quite common to see these panzer caps made with continental insignia. Here is another but with rosette on dark green this time.

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**Christian_GJR3** · 07-02-2007, 02:25 PM

panzer wrap

Starting new thread.

Krisztian

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