Leather Panzer Wrap question ...

[NickG]

page!

[NickG]

Dave's tag...
Is Michael's coat really a different pattern?

[phild]

Dave's tag...
Is Michael's coat really a different pattern?

NickG, thanks for the picture. Is there a period photo in the JA book of a NSKK person wearing one of these or any other type of leather Jacket?

I agree with you that all of the leather wraps that have been posted thus far in this thread as well as the ones in the KM photos are the same model of wrap.

My problem is and has been that I am not seeing ANY evidence in JA's book that these were intended for the NSKK. There is a current photo of a leather wrap and then some kind of description about something that the NSKK might have worn....ok.....well his description does not even closely marry up to these type of wraps! These have nothing in common with Alum. buttons, etc. that he is talking about. He approached me 25 years ago about using some of my collection of protecticve clothing in his KM series....I wish now that I had done it and given him some information so that maybe this whole NSKK mess would have been avoided.

[phild]

I have to say further that the write up in that book is simply incorrect at best and really closer to just garbage in terms of accurate information...most every word.

The MILITARY CONTRACT ISSUE!!! wrap that they show is captioned as a civilian style wrap!! What is written above that photo is just as off target.

[NickG]

I believe that these had a double row of resin buttons on the outside front (as well as on the inside) which were removed for armed forces service...as these are in the way in cramped quarters (tanks,u-boats).

Michael's coat appears to have signs of removed buttons on the front (double breasted style)... this would fit the bill for civilian/para-military style garments...
(like what NSKK motorcycle dispatch riders would wear).
No images of this pattern in that book, but I'll look in other sources.

[djpool]

I find it hard to believe that the US Intell service wouldn't know what leather is. The term twill is a generic term for:

Twill is a type of fabric woven with a pattern of diagonal parallel ribs.
There are even-sided twills and warp-faced twills. Even-sided twills include foulard or surah, serge, twill flannel, sharkskin, herringbone, and houndstooth. Warp-faced twills include lining twill, denim, jean, drill, covert, chino, gabardine, cavalry twill, and fancy twill.


I'm not a SS collector but I thought the coveralls were made from some type of duck material. Army duck material can technically be called a twill. Jim

Maybee this is another mistake - like the "one piece camoflage twill coverall" named there as well...?

[NickG]

Could this perhaps be a buttoned up "wrap style" leather NSKK motoring coat?
The closure is not in the center...but collar does look narrower...

[NickG]

??

[NickG]

Not the best quality image but it sure looks like a leather wrap style short jacket!
Maybe this is why Angolia assumed these were of NSKK origin...
and later as "carry-over" garments pressed into armed forces service...(U-boot/Pzr)

[Johnny R]

I have some early pictures of Krad Soldiers with leather two piece suits. I will post those if I can find them quickly

[Gran Sasso]

I find it hard to believe that the US Intell service wouldn't know what leather is. The term twill is a generic term for:


I'm not a SS collector but I thought the coveralls were made from some type of duck material. Army duck material can technically be called a twill. Jim

I am sure they knew wha leather is - I meant there could have been some other missunderstandings or errors, e.g. they found just one of those KM-jacktes, and thought it must be Panzer due to the cut, or so.

The regular coverall were made from Zeltbahn-material, the same as used for smocks, helmet covers nad caps.

[phild]

I am sure they knew wha leather is - I meant there could have been some other missunderstandings or errors, e.g. they found just one of those KM-jacktes, and thought it must be Panzer due to the cut, or so. .

Perhaps, but the report goes into some detail about where they were issued for field testing, the whole flashburn bit about why they were developed and the fact that they copied the regular wrap sets in cut....it is a lot BS for even an Army Intell unit to put out in writing without a pretty good basis.

The NSKK photos above all apear to be pre-war and I can not tell what they are wearing. There were a lot of leather motorcycle jackets around in the 1930s that were doublebreasted (and not) and there may have been an NSKK offical pattern made...but an example of one must be rarer than a SS Generals White top peak cap if they were made for the NSKK and not just adapted civilian jackets. I've seen at least 500 (or maybe 5000??) of the NSKK stirzhelms over the last 40 years but not one leather motorcycle jacket that I could say was associated with the NSKK....thats odd.

These wraps that we are discussing in this thread are all of late war vintage.

[Michael Kuligowski]

what a great thread got developed here !

My coat is the same pattern Nick like presented here by You, from what I remember about that coat (its packed away in Poland - I didnt have it in hand for last ferw years) is that front buttons indeed are removed, there are ek2 ribbon traces and traces after removed, propable sewed in type, shoulderboards.
cheers !

I have found few more pics from the past:

[Michael Kuligowski]

two

[Michael Kuligowski]

inside