photo question : what kind of tunic is this?

Hello to all

I found this picture is a 44' dated Signal. I was wondering what kind of uniform ( which model) the two soldiers at the background -with their steelhelmets- are wearing. Photograph could be older then the edition of the Signal...

So, is it a sort of Weimar/Reichwehr-era tunic? Or could this be a foreign tunic adapted to german standards?


Any opinions are highly appreciated

Cheers

Jan

solved it myself?

Found this tunic for sale on Weitze ' site.Could it be the same? A dutch re-worked tunic?

[DaveJ]

Sure looks like it

[erichcraciun]

I would have to agree: Dutch.

thanks guys for the confirmation! That's what I also thought

Does somebady has such a tunic in his collection? It would be nice to see some...

greetings

Jan

[lbsr]

IMO
Waffenrock reworked for Field use (collar, cuffs & breast pocket added) - there is a photo somewhere in Angolia's & Schlicht book about Heer uniforms...

Hi lbsr, thanks for the help..but I have some small questions :

If this is a reworked waffenrock, are the pockets attached in the inside? Why would they put only flaps on the tunic?

cuffs & breast pocket added)

And why would they put cuffs on a OR combattunic? I don't see any cuffs on the picture.


It would be great if someone has a picture of such a ' reworked waffenrock'

cheers

Jan

[lbsr]

I haven't access to my printed sources before next week...

[Albert]

Answers

Hi Jan,

I don't know anything about dutch uniforms but I think I can answer your questions to lbsr.

When adding a pocket you need a flap but then you can go two ways: add the whole thing to the outside OR cut a slit and sew in a "bag" to the inside (cheaper!). Both can be encountered on German tunics; see the slant pockets on the Reichswehr / WH and the early SS tunics.

The removal and replacement of the waffenrock's collar and the cuffs was done for obvious reasons: create a subdued and uniform appearance.

Now, when you remove the fancy cuffs from the Waffenrock you end up having a length problem which you have to solve by adding another cuff. And that is what lbsr meant, I think.

Even though I could not answer your original question I hope I could add a little bit to the discussion.

Best regards,
Al

Thanks Al, for the information...,would like to see one, but I think that these are quiet scarce,no?

On the other hand the tunics on the picture shows no cuffs, so probably they're Dutch...

mfg

Jan

[ngs3]

I doubt it is a reworked Waffenrock . . . count the buttons. The Waffenrock has 8. It also has two in the rear above the vent which had scallops with 4 more buttons. I would look for evidence of those to help identify the tunic. I vote it is captured uniforms--MANY Czech and Dutch uniforms as well as fabric supplies were used by the Germans from both those countries.

Neil

[lbsr]

In NO CASE it is ex-czechoslovakian uniform.
Tunics on picture have 8 buttons & cuffs too.

& cuffs too

Again, Jiri, I don't see any cuffs on the picture...

[lbsr]

After serious research of my (printed) sources & photos I think there is an error in Angolia & Schlicht book (german edition).
The GREAT difference between Dutch tunics & Waffenrock is number of buttons - Dutch tunic has 7 buttons, Wafenrock has 8 ones.
As I cannot post pictures to the forum I put them on my site.
There is original english text from Angolia & Schlicht book http://www.tenzor.cz/lbsr/forum/a_vol1_p104-106.jpg.
Text & photos form german edition: http://www.tenzor.cz/lbsr/forum/s_h_s074-075.jpg.
(there are photos described as "reworked Waffenrock" - but blouses had clearly only 7 front buttons - i.e. these blouses couuldn't be "Wafferocks".
On this site are some pictures from german book "Die Uniformen und Abzeichen der Kosaken in der Deutschen Wehrmacht (Peter Schuster & Harald Tiede, Patzwall Verlag, Norderstedt 1999, Germany, ISBN 3-931533-42-5).
There is good example of "reworked Waffenrock" http://www.tenzor.cz/lbsr/forum/kosaken_4.jpg
and some reissued Dutch tunics worn by Cossacks.
http://www.tenzor.cz/lbsr/forum/kosaken_1.jpg
http://www.tenzor.cz/lbsr/forum/kosaken_2.jpg
http://www.tenzor.cz/lbsr/forum/kosaken_3.jpg

So after my (corrected) opinion tunics on first photo are reissued Dutch tunics as the tunic on 2nd photo is.

Note 1: Uffz. has the same tunic as men I think (and low cuff are there clearly seen).

Note2: "LOw" cuffs were on German Waffenrocks and on Dutch tunics too.

Thanks Jiri for clearing this out!

Nice pictures by the way...