Named Generals Tunic

[Mike P.]

Left side of mine --

[Mike P.]

Thanks Nick ..we must have both been posting at the same time.
When you put Ron's Tab next to another one (orig) like that ...there's no way anyone could think the Tabs were real ..

[GFM]

Hey guys, take a look at the Arndt books......they are filled with period close up color pics of Generals and GFM's and you'll find some examples of the tabs without the curly 'horns', as you put it. This used to bother me years ago as well, but once I started seeing a few period pics its bothered me less.

We have to remember, all this stuff was hand embroidered and is going to vary. The degree of the curly-cue 'horns' varied quite a bit.....much like the front edge, or 'pointy' end. Most of the repro tabs are really pretty crappily done and even the really good ones if you get a chance to examine them in hand you can tell something just ain't right. But I'd not dismiss these just because of their lack of 'curly-ness'........'Hey Moe.....nyuk, nyuk'!

And speaking of which, anybody here remember the Three Stooges episode where Curly played Reichmarschall Herring?

[NTZ]

GFM, I do have all of Arndt’s books along with Schaulen’s. Fantastic books if you don’t have them. Unfortunately most of the head shots focus on the face so there is some blurring of the tabs. I just went through both sets of books and looked at all the generals’ portraits and other pics. I still did not see one photo were you can conclusively say there is no “horns”.

I think we need to be careful here on blurring the lines on what is acceptable as original and what is not. I know a lot of collectors say that in 20yrs this or that fake will be accepted as real. I agree. After looking at 30 or so pics of authentic generals tabs and then 40 or more period pics of tabs and still not having found a conclusive example without “horns”. I would say the evidence is pretty damming. Even if you can find 1 photo, the exception to the rule, does that make these good?

Nick

[GFM]

Nick, what I meant to point out was the amount of variation in the 'curly-ness', so to speak, of that aspect of the tab. Some of them are extremely curly, very thin and delicate and almost go in a full circle and others are fat and just jut fairly straight up. Examples; look at the difference in the tabs for Weichs and Keitel, both on facing pages of the Arndt Berghoff book, I believe.

With hand embroidery you're always going to find variation. You could fill a whole thread with variation on the leading edge of Generals tabs, if someone wanted to pick on that aspect. Matching examples, obviously even done by the same hand, will show different pointy front edges. Same with the inner 'circle'....sometimes its wide open, others completely closed.

If you want to paint these tabs as fake, thats fine.....disagreement is part of this hobby. Personally, I don't feel that way and I'd rather examine them in hand before rendering any kind of public damnation. But, like everyone else on here, its just my opinion and my niche area of interest....I'm certainly no final word on any of this stuff by any means.

At least this time nobody is picking on the fact the boards are on backwards. For a long time that was being knocked as a sure sign of fakery, but since pictures of high ranks like Goring, Sperrle and Dietrich with this fashion faux pas were pointed out it seems to have subsided.

[NTZ]

Nick, what I meant to point out was the amount of variation in the 'curly-ness', so to speak, of that aspect of the tab. Some of them are extremely curly, very thin and delicate and almost go in a full circle and others are fat and just jut fairly straight up. Examples; look at the difference in the tabs for Weichs and Keitel, both on facing pages of the Arndt Berghoff book, I believe.

Hi Mike, I agree with you 110% on this. My problem does not end with the curl. It is also with the overall quality and lack of detail. We also need to take in the whole picture. You have a tunic with tabs confirmed replaced. The shoulder boards messed with and a breast eagle that was machine stitched to the tunic. When you add up the big picture it is not a pretty one. How many fake generals are out there? How many post war upgraded generals are out there? A hell of a lot more than untouched ones, that is for sure. When you see something that deviates that far from the norm and on a tunic that already has issues I just can’t see giving it the “innocent until proven guilty”. Not unless you want to loose a ton of money in this hobby.

In this case since the tabs are still attached and there is no way to see the reverse I am not so sure a hands on will give you any more detail.

In regards to the reverse placement you are correct; there are way too many period photos of this happening.

[Mike P.]

Since you brought it up Mike ---
I have taken the Liberty of notifying our respected Team of Experts and have requested their assistance and opinions on the matter.
After thorough examination , detailed observation and financial consideration ...they will present their opinion in Due Form .

[Mike P.]

http://members.aye.net/~mainman/groucho/marxopinion.wav

[GFM]

Ahhh yes, I see you found a pic of Mike P., Mike H. and Nick all contemplating the curly-quotient of Generaltabism.......

Now, Mike, if you can just find a good, period pic of Reichmarshall Herring I'll be impressed

[NTZ]

Here you go

[DaveJ]

I do not like the tabs, the quality does not match side to side, and the left one was either done after a dozen beers or during an day long visit of the 8th Airforce to Germany.
I would like to have a hands on to see the outline of the old tabs, and the way the buttons are sewn on.
Dave

[Mike P.]

Ahhh yes, I see you found a pic of Mike P., Mike H. and Nick all contemplating the curly-quotient of Generaltabism.......

Now, Mike, if you can just find a good, period pic of Reichmarshall Herring I'll be impressed

I tried finding one showing his "Rear End" Awards but , no luck ..here's another front shot though.
I think I saw that Armband on Ebay last year ..Musta been one of Shnyders Tweashers

[Tony Mickelson]

My General Tunic has the same collar design

2004_0319CBTphotos0018.JPGMy general's summer tunic has basically the same collar. The tunic was made in Amsterdam and the insignias are all original to the tunic. So this could be a design variation.

[sturmbannfuhrer]

[ATTACH]608526[/ATTACH]My general's summer tunic has basically the same collar. The tunic was made in Amsterdam and the insignias are all original to the tunic. So this could be a design variation. [ATTACH]608514[/ATTACH]

I'm not keen on the dark bits. I prefer the tabs to be all gold bullion, or all gold celleon. The dark bits look like tarnished silver bullion. Correct me if wrong.

[DaveJ]

It is not uncomman to see mixed celleon and bullion work to highlight areas. I like the look myself,this is one from GenLt Rodenburg, this has cello inserts,on bullion.
The key I have always found is the quality of the work.