Collecting Gorgets

[SOLDAT1]

GORGETS

BACK

ROBERT

[TJ Suter]

Here is a photo of my Feldgendarmerie gorget. The backing is cardboard. I pried up the cardboard a little and the scroll and eagle are attached with flat prongs. This one doesn't have any maker marks.

[SOLDAT1]

Very nice example thomas, and yours interestingly has no maker mark also

Rob

[merdock]

Hi,
As Radium has a half life of somthing like a 1000 years and is one of the most posonous substances known can it be safe to collect anything coverd in Radium?
Are there any Doctors/chemists out there.
Merdock

[Philippe]

Bahnhofswache - backing is cardboard

Hello,

Below is a Bahnhofswache gorget with the cardboard backing:





Here are some more gorgets for your pleasure..













To see all these gorgets in details click HERE



Happy collecting!


Philippe
www.majorplm.com

[merdock]

Hi,
heres my only Gorget,not the best condition.
Chains marked M1/17 no markings on gorget body.

[David F]

In the book God Honour Fatherland a pictorial history of GD it has a picture of a GD feldgendarmerie wearing a special gorget for GD only.HOw rare are these and how much would they sell for?
David F

[Schoner]

Radioactive Gorgets?

Hello all.

This is my first posting regarding Feldgendarmrie gorgets. My interest in these is not so much for the collecting of NAZI Era relics but for those that are radioactive, an interest that I have had for over 40 years. In this study and collection I have acquired and accumulated a collection of British, American, Canadian, German WWI and WWII items that are definitely radioactive with Ra-226. This collection includes compasses, gauges, and D-Day issue luminous disks. And I have other commercial items from the early 1900's to the 1960's that also have radium (Ra-226)

So, with my interest, for years I have been seeking a Feldgendarmrie gorget, having read numerous posts here and at other sites that these are radioactive. And the one that landed my way from a very respected dealer of authentic WWII relics, and a member of this blog, is exactly like the one shown by another in this thread. It is identical in the way it looks, its backing, the chain and the other details. And it is like the one shown, near mint. I would like to post JPG images of it, but I have no HTTP link to do so. I will see if I can post images of it on my facebook page or on Youtube, then provide the link for you to see that it is exactly the same as the one previously posted in this thread.

I have no doubt that the gorget is authentic. But here is the problem that I see with regards to numerous discussions regarding this type gorget with supposed "Radium paint."

1. Statements that the gorget crescent shield is magnetic steel. Anything other is fake.

Really? My example is not magnetic, but the buttons, the scroll, and the tabs on the back are magnetic. The shield appears to be a zinc alloy.

2. Statements regarding radioactivity as proof of authenticity,

And this is where my real interest comes in. For 40 years I have collected radioactive items,
and have the instruments to measure and quantify radiation. In this I have very sensitive scintillators, rate meters, Geiger counters of many types, detector tubes that measure and quantify alpha, beta, and gamma radiation.

With my instruments, using the most sensitive ones, I discovered to my dismay that this gorget is not radioactive. I could not detect any alpha, beta, or gamma radiation at all. And this had me very perplexed. So I spent several days exploring this on the Internet seeking information on these gorgets supposedly painted with radioactive radium paint.

Results:

I read statements, upon statements regarding purported radioactivity, but NO SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF SUCH involving the use of scientific instruments. But in this searching I found numerous posts and articles from laymen and scientists regarding other WW1, WW2 and commercial items that have radium paint, demonstrating it with radiation instruments.

So... I studied further and looked into the use of radioluminescent paint in Germany during WW1, and WWII. I know that they used radium paint and I have several WWII German compasses that are indeed painted with radium (Ra-226) and they are very "hot" today. So, what about the gorget?

Yes, it glows when exposed to light, so it has phosporescent paint for sure, but that is not the radium paint that I am familiar with. And the colour of this phosporescent paint is like in colour to true radium paint; a creamy tanish-yelow-green. This is the colour that I would expect in true radium paint, but it is not radioactive.

And I discovered that during WWII and before the war the Germans, well aware of the dangers of radium paint used mesothorium (Ra-228) with a half life of 5..8 years instead of radium (Ra-226) with a half life of 1620 years. And this mesothorium paint was preferred for items that were ephemeral; not expected to last longer than several half lives of mesothoriums 5.8 years.

So, considering that they may have used mesothorium (Ra-228) often called radium as it is chemically the same as radium (Ra-226) instead, after 70 years it would have gone through at least 12 half lives. And this would certainly reduce any radiation today that one would detect even with very sensitive instruments. But even after 12 half lives, some mesothroium would be present, but only detectable with a very sensitive high end scintillator detector shielded in several hundred pounds of virgin pre-1945 lead to eliminate background radiation.

The reason of virgin lead is that all lead today mined and processed after 1945 is contaminated with radioactive isotopes from all the nuclear bomb testing done after that date.

All this said, I would not discount a Feldgendarmire, or Feldjagercorps gorgets as fake just because they are not radioactive today, but might have been 70 years ago and well into the 1960's as its radiation ever decreased to the virtually impossible to detect now.

It would be interesting to see if any members that have access to a Geigher counter, or a university or institution that has them, testing their gorgets for radiation. There may still be some radioactively hot ones today, as Ra-228 and Ra-226 are chemically the same, and very difficult to separate unless the Germans had virtually pure monsonite as a thorium source ore. I think from what I read that they did indeed have that ore in the form of monazite sand (Thorium phosphate) found along rivers.

BTW: I sent a Russian Chernobyl Era pocket Geiger counter designed to detect tiny traces of isotopic radiation in food to the dealer that sold me this gorget to detect his others, Result so far no radiation from any of those that he has.

Steve

[caracciola]

Radioactive Gorgets ?

Hello Steve,

interesting all that.

As my English is not so good as yours, I have to do short !

I am a collector of german gorgets for many many years now and my experience allows me to know if a Feldgendarmerie gorget is good or not (at least until now).

Several months ago, I have tested a Feldgendarmerie gorget (Maker : M) with a Geiger counter.

Result ? Nothing ! Absolutly nothing !

Feldgendarmerie gorgets are radioactive ! Myth or reality ?

A part of my small collection : http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=637527

Thanks for your thread.

C.

[Schoner]

Hello Steve,

interesting all that.

As my English is not so good as yours, I have to do short !

I am a collector of german gorgets for many many years now and my experience allows me to know if a Feldgendarmerie gorget is good or not (at least until now).

Several months ago, I have tested a Feldgendarmerie gorget (Maker : M) with a Geiger counter.

Result ? Nothing ! Absolutly nothing !

Feldgendarmerie gorgets are radioactive ! Myth or reality ?

A part of my small collection : http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=637527



Thanks for your thread.

C.

Hello caracciola,

As I stated the whole idea that these were or are painted with true radium (Ra-226) has perplexed me for years, till I was finally able to get an authentic one in hand to test, and maybe add to my radioactive relic collection.

Nothing, not even the a flick of the Eberline E-520 Geigher counter set at X.01 the most sensitive setting with a thin window tube. Then I tried it with an even more sensitive ratemeter with a even more sensitive thin window tube.

Nothing, no ticks, no needle movement above natural background.

The only conclusion I can make regarding this is that the Gorget was never painted with radium (Ra-226) with a half life of 1620 years. The dealer was loaned a small Russian Geiger counter to test his other authentic Gorgets. Result so far the two others he had also had no detectable radioactivity.

If these were ever self luminous (radioluminescent) it had to be with mesothorium which my research revealed that that was the luminous paint that was used for at least some of the items that were painted with so called "radium paint" Mesothorium (Ra-228) has a half life of 5.8 years. So if the Gorgets were painted with that... no wonder we cannot detect it now.

And mesothorium is much less expensive than radium, as well as being safer for the wearer, too,

This is a world wide forum, and it would be great if others out there can secure a small Geiger counter and test their Gorgets. Keychain Geiger counters are readily available on Ebay for $40 to $60. They are well worth it, for there are other WWI and WWII gear that is really painted with true radium paint. And some of these are "hot" enough to be dangerous to those that unknowingly collect them.

Steve