Collecting Gorgets

[sedmeades]

G'day
This is one area I rarely see a comment on. There was a discussion some time back that mentioned the luminous paint used on the Feldgendamerie Gorgets but that's the only discussion I remember seeing about gorgets.
I have never come across one but I presume there is a market for them and people do collect them. Would this be correct? What sort of prices do they go for?
Are some more desirable than others, for example Feldjager Korps over Kammandantur? Does anyone have an opinion?
Scott

[Gordon Williamson]

Scott,

I love em! The military ones are , apart from the Feldgendarmerie, very hard to find and extremely expensive which is why I suppose so few people collect them. Also rarities like the Feldjügerkorps can be made by adding a fake scroll to an original but much less valuable Feldgendarmerie gorget.
The little Marinekustenpolizei was wuite nice too, though the one I had was a bit battered, Very hard to find.
I also like the Hungarian Field Security Police Gorget though they always seem to have the chain missing.

Somewhere I have a scan of a very rare Gorget of the Rumanian field folice. I'll dig it out and post it later.

Love to see pics of Gorgets anyone else might have.

Gordon

[DJT]

Gordon,

Could you tell me what sort of price a nice regular Heer Feldgendarmerie gorget should sell for? By the way how rare are the Luftwaffe Feldgendarmerie gorgets?
And finally could you give me some pointers on teling the originals from the fakes. I`d really appreciate any feedback. Thanks

Regards

Des

[Gordon Williamson]

Des,

I've seen original Feldgendarmerie Gorgets at between £300 and £400 dependant on condition in the Uk in recent months. I've only ever seen two real Luft Feldgendarmerie Gorgets. I would be hard pressed to trust one. To easy to take a minty Army one and fake it up.

The fakes were all made in aluminium for some time but a few years back they started doing them in pressed steel just like the originals, though the finish is far too bright. I saw one that a reenactor had taken and had sand blasted to dull down the finish, then with a bit of rust etc, it was quite convincing. The prongs on the back of the fakes aren't quite right. Originals are usually made from strip a bit thinner than the gorget itself, fakes seem to be made from the same gauge metal as the gorget.

Here is the Romianian Field Police Gorget.



Not 100% sure about the Cyrillic, but I believe it is Voenna Policij.

Gordon

[DJT]

Thank you for the feedback Gordon. £300 - £400 is not bad. I could`nt get into the area of gorgets too seriously because of the cost factor but I have always fancied a regular feldgendarmerie gorget for my collection.
One last question and thats were the gorgets ever maker marked?

Regards

Des

[Gordon Williamson]

Des,

Yes the Feldgendarmerie gorgets are occasionally marked. Most often either the Assmann A mark or a small letter M within a diamond, usually stamped on to the prong. Don't know who the latter mark is for.

G

[Rick Research]

Gordon--that is the Bulgarian gorget you're lucky enough to have, illustrated up above. "Voenna Politsiya"--"Military Police."
Haven't ever seen one before.

Des--one good way to tell fakes from originals with the German ones is, aside from comments already made, the luminous paint itself. The original old paint was made with radium, the way old watch markings were. Nasty RADIOACTIVE stuff you don't want to store anywhere near you. The paint finish is a sort of hard baked, smooth, very lightly yellow "off-white" color, whereas the new glow in the dark paint has a very lemony-greenish tinge and a rough sprayed on pollen-like finish that looks like it would scrape off with your fingernail. Under a blacklight the new paint will flash a very greeny-yellow indeed.

Of course, I am out of date with current fakery--perhaps the no-regard-for-human-life bunch out East are now gleefully using radium paint just like the good old days... but that has been banned in the west.

I don't know who M in a diamond was either, but they made army visor cap eagles as well.

My all aluminum, glued on felt backed Feldgendarmerie gorget, bought in the 1980s from an openly repro supply house, is neatly, but pointlessly "hallmarked" on the buttonhole prong D.R.G.M. without the supposedly protected design number!

I'm not sure about this, but aren't most originals backed in cardboard rather than felt? Off the top of my head, I'd say that has been the case over the years I've handled them.

[ 27 September 2001: Message edited by: Rick Lundstrom ]

[Adrian Stevenson]

I have owned an original Feldgendarmrie gorget for about 20 years now. I bought it at Nottingham Arms Fair from Malcolm Fisher of "Regimentals". Even back then it cost me £70. The backing is field grey wool. The luminous paint still glows in the dark, especially if you hold it under a light bulb for a few seconds and then turn out the light!
The chain links are steel with a silver wash. The only detracting thing is the lugs are both broken off. It is one of my favorite items in my collection.

[VerKuilen Ager]

You'll want to get a copy of Deeter and Odegard's Gorgets of the Third Reich (ancient, but still obtainable). It's as close as you'll get to many of these things.

From the 31 July, 1941 Illustrierter Beobachter, a Waffen-SS gorget wearer. According to O & D, one of the double cuff titles is "SS-Feldgendarmerie."



[ 27 September 2001: Message edited by: Histaria ]

[CSP]

Scott:
You will find that repro Feldgendarmerie gorgets are generally made of different metal - mostly aluminum, versus the steel of an original. In addition to usually having paint jobs that are sloppy and / or new looking the lettering may not be sharply defined (sometimes even glued on). The size can vary (sorry, I do not have proper measurements - but one can usually eyeball them pretty well)too. The edges on an original are rolled under and rounded off. The repros may have a less rolled edge to them and that edge can also be somewhat rough or sharp. As noted above, the metal tabs n the reverse on an original differ in thickness from a repro. Lastly, I have seen fakes that have felt backings versus field grey wool, but also repros with wool.
That's about the range of my knowledge on fakes/repros.
I agree on the price range given. About 10 years ago I traded one for $400 as I recall.
sincerely:
Scott also

[sedmeades]

Guys
Can anyone tell me why there is any backing at all to a Gorget, whether Felt, wool or Cardboard. Without having ever seen one I was surprised to read they had a backing.
Was this to prevent rubbing or cathcing on the uniform or for some other reason.
What are the lugs people are talking about. I know I am showing my ignorance here but I know nothing about this area.
Thanks
Scott

[Rick Research]

The German gorgets have two lugs or prongs--one behind the left hand "button" as viewed, to slide the end of the chain on and off. The other is centered at the top of the reverse to slip into the tunic buttonhole so it wouldn't bang around (not good while chasing deserters through the woods). They are flat, rounded, and about the width of fingers.

The backing must have been either to reduce rubbing the tunic, or as a sweat barrier.

[Richard]

The backing may also have been to prevent hanging on the cloth of the uniform as most of the devices on gorgets were affixed by being bolted on. Probably a safeguard to keep the bolts from getting caught and pulling threads out of the material of the wearer's uniform. Also made the back look a little more aesthetically appealing.
Richard V

[Gordon Williamson]

Most of the original Feldgendarmerie Gorgets I have had have had card backing, but woollen cloth is certainly correct also. The small Marineküstenpolizei usually has cloth backing.

The eagle emblem and scroll were attached by prongs just like on the back of a cap eagle or the back of an arm shield like the Krim or Kuban. Without a cloth or card backing, these prongs would eventually snag on the tunic material and most likely break off.

Gordon

[SOLDAT1]

GORGETS

HERE IS A PICTURE OF MY ORIGINAL FELDGENDARMERIE GORGET THAT I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO OBTAIN FROM A VETERANS SON FOR A MERE £200 NO MAKER MARKS.THE SON SAID HIS FATHER PICKED IT UP IN NORMANDY IN 1944