Windhund Badge Oriqinal vs what the collecting community accepts as real.

[Lucky Duck]

hi everyone,

Ray-it was your comment that prompted me to post this.I figured a stand alone thread would get more members to look.

John, I'LL post some pics of the back later.

Gary, From the pic it looks like one of the worse copies I've seen.

Fran******231;ois and K98- Unfortunately there are true stories of finds in museums, etc. A trusted friend in Germany told me they found a stash of insignia within the last month.Mostly common items but also a few dozen pairs of LWFD tabs.
I know that a few years ago another stash was found in the former eastern Germany. Problem here is that some dealers continue to use that find to "authenticate" insignia that was never a part of that find.
So the real problem is trying to sort fact from fiction IMHO.

wr Jim

Why would a museum be in possession of a box of unissued insignia that matches no other known issued insignia in terms of both type and construction? Makes little sense. And even if it were true, the presumption that this particular type never made it into circulation minimizes their collector interest and value.

Ray

[djpool]

Why would a museum be in possession of a box of unissued insignia that matches no other known issued insignia in terms of both type and construction? Makes little sense. And even if it were true, the presumption that this particular type never made it into circulation minimizes their collector interest and value.

Ray

Ray,

I agree. I have always doubted the originality of these badges.However I see them on a number of forums being displayed as original. Just trying to inform the collecting community. If they want to believe the museum/tailor shop story then so be it. WRJim

[Lucky Duck]

I've seen them posted on this forum as original, too. Somebody posted photo of one he claims he found in an aspirin tin at a flea market. No offense to the poster, but flea market aspirin tins are as reliable as "museum caches" in giving credibility to this repro.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about the various versions of this badge, and so far only the "Militaria Mag" type is commonly accepted as unquestionable. I believe there are a couple more original types. At least we agree the pointy elbow dog is not one of them!

Ray

[djpool]

Could we see the back side?

John,

As requested.Jim

[djpool]

I've seen them posted on this forum as original, too. Somebody posted photo of one he claims he found in an aspirin tin at a flea market. No offense to the poster, but flea market aspirin tins are as reliable as "museum caches" in giving credibility to this repro.

There seems to be a lot of misinformation about the various versions of this badge, and so far only the "Militaria Mag" type is commonly accepted as unquestionable. I believe there are a couple more original types. At least we agree the pointy elbow dog is not one of them!

Ray

Hi Ray,

I would like to hear your comments on other accepted versions of the badge. I know one forum members father wore an embroidered version during the war. Most references also discuss a larger version given to select personnel, but I've never seen a picture of it. WR Jim

[90th Light]

Hi Ray,

I would like to hear your comments on other accepted versions of the badge. I know one forum members father wore an embroidered version during the war. Most references also discuss a larger version given to select personnel, but I've never seen a picture of it. WR Jim

Hello Jim, great thread and excellent qualitative approach to comparing the two items and posing the question to us all.

I have been lead to believe that the other original WW2 versions can be a buntmetall version and a magnetic version. The buntmetall one I have seen has no silver. It had bronze coloured high-lights with black painted recess areas. It may be that the silver had worn off or I have wondered if may be for Panzer Grenadiers. Details were like what you show on the top original zinc badge. By this I mean more rounded as opposed to the sharp angles of the lower badge. The black back-round is also like the upper badge not the snow-flake effect of the lower badge.

Will be interested to see what others have to say, Chris

[djpool]

Hello Jim, great thread and excellent qualitative approach to comparing the two items and posing the question to us all.

I have been lead to believe that the other original WW2 versions can be a buntmetall version and a magnetic version. The buntmetall one I have seen has no silver. It had bronze coloured high-lights with black painted recess areas. It may be that the silver had worn off or I have wondered if may be for Panzer Grenadiers. Details were like what you show on the top original zinc badge. By this I mean more rounded as opposed to the sharp angles of the lower badge. The black back-round is also like the upper badge not the snow-flake effect of the lower badge.

Will be interested to see what others have to say, Chris

Hi Chris,

As I mentioned I have no proof these are fakes, but I have a strong sense they are. Too many stories ie museums, tailor shops. Plus none of them can be attributed to vets etc or were ever seen before 1995.Then you see how different they are from known originals and ..well.. just say theres reason for suspicion.

I would love to see examples of the other badges you mentioned. I believe variants probably existed. Maybe other members can post theres.

WR Jim

[90th Light]

Hi Chris,

As I mentioned I have no proof these are fakes, but I have a strong sense they are. Too many stories ie museums, tailor shops. Plus none of them can be attributed to vets etc or were ever seen before 1995.Then you see how different they are from known originals and ..well.. just say theres reason for suspicion.

I would love to see examples of the other badges you mentioned. I believe variants probably existed. Maybe other members can post theres.

WR Jim

I understand what you are saying Jim, the lower badge you have put up images of may in fact be a variation which has been found in quantities since the war. This does and has happened, like the "Bee-hive find of DAK caps" but on the oter hand when a slight variation from the norm turns up in almost mint condition with more than one dealer at the same time then any collector has to be on their guard that it could be a reproduction and ask the hard questions.

Again I repeat this is a good thread about an interesting badge which raises important questions for all those who collect this type of unit insignia.

I will see if I can arrange to have some images posted of the variation I have seen but also hope that others reading this may have some other variations they can share with us. I would be very surprised if there is only one original type in zinc and would be very keen to see some magnetic ones.

Best regards, Chris

[Bob Hritz]

This is one from my ads, many years ago. Sorry for the weak photo.

Bob Hritz

[Bob Hritz]

Verso

Bob Hritz

[djpool]

This is one from my ads, many years ago. Sorry for the weak photo.

Bob Hritz

Hey Bob,

Even though there are minor differences between yours and mine, I have no doubt yours is good. Possible a different die or maker. This one would look good with my other cap badges .Jim

[naxos]

How about this one?

The holes have been added by the wearer, IMO



more here:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=388099

Thank you, Hardy

[naxos]

heres a shot of the rim and background.

[naxos]

A shot of the head.

[naxos]

tail