Windhund Badge Oriqinal vs what the collecting community accepts as real.

[djpool]

I have a passion for the capbadge of the 116th Panzer division. In the last few years a number of 116 capbadges have hit the market that bother me. I have expressed my concerns before, but was told these new badges were found in a museum and are 100% real. Recently I picked up one of these badges in a trade.The story was 3 of them were found in a tailor shop in Austria. On the surface the badges look good. In fact they could be real; but don't look anything like the known originals that I've encountered since the 1970s. Here are some comparison shots of a known original (always on top) vs the new breed. I also placed a negative shot to the right of each badge. Heres a overall comparison. the original is slightly smaller and made from zinc.

Anyway I would like to hear what others think.WR Jim

[djpool]

heres a shot of the rim and background.

[djpool]

A shot of the head.

[djpool]

tail

[djpool]

front leg

[djpool]

Here are a few comparisons of the grass at the bottom. Left side

[djpool]

middle section

[djpool]

this is the last picture, right side. If you compare each picture and the differences are easily seen. As a general observation the original badge on top has much softer lines to it. The badge on bottom has very sharp edges etc.

[Lucky Duck]

I have a passion for the capbadge of the 116th Panzer division. In the last few years a number of 116 capbadges have hit the market that bother me. I have expressed my concerns before, but was told these new badges were found in a museum and are 100% real. Recently I picked up one of these badges in a trade.The story was 3 of them were found in a tailor shop in Austria. On the surface the badges look good. In fact they could be real; but don't look anything like the known originals that I've encountered since the 1970s. Here are some comparison shots of a known original (always on top) vs the new breed. I also placed a negative shot to the right of each badge. Heres a overall comparison. the original is slightly smaller and made from zinc.

Anyway I would like to hear what others think.WR Jim

"New Breed" is right. As I stated in an earlier thread, I believe the sharp elbow version is a recent made copy. I've seen lots of them for sale only since around 1995, always like new condition, and they match none of the versions I know of with provenance. Dealer can call it whatever he likes "100% original" "museum find" "vet pick up" heard it all before.

Sincerely,
Ray

[Lucky Duck]

Here are a few comparisons of the grass at the bottom. Left side

You can see in this photo, (post #6, lower left) the badge was painted with what I think is an unusual method-- first the entire piece was sprayed black, then it was sanded off the surface. Where the ground receeds on the extreme lower left, the paint isn't buffed off. And why were these pieces sprayed with gray paint on the back? To hide the new looking solder maybe?

Ray

[John Huff]

Could we see the back side?

[K98_1942]

I never believe that museum crap... everyone says that. Might as well say they found it in a barn.

[RUHL13]

Hi WR Jim,
I have had this one along time now, flea market find. Notice no lines to neck, collar, holes to each side, would make sense for attaching to side of visor or cap. Made of zinc, pot metal. If you think its bad, then add it to your known fakes. Its not going anywhere, on the market I mean. Very good thread, always wondered when and if they would fake these.
Regards,
Gary

[François SAEZ]

I have a passion for the capbadge of the 116th Panzer division. In the last few years a number of 116 capbadges have hit the market that bother me. I have expressed my concerns before, but was told these new badges were found in a museum and are 100% real. Recently I picked up one of these badges in a trade.The story was 3 of them were found in a tailor shop in Austria. On the surface the badges look good. In fact they could be real; but don't look anything like the known originals that I've encountered since the 1970s. Here are some comparison shots of a known original (always on top) vs the new breed. I also placed a negative shot to the right of each badge. Heres a overall comparison. the original is slightly smaller and made from zinc.

Anyway I would like to hear what others think.WR Jim

Well Jim,

As you know, the best way to sell fakes is to sell items with no reference possible, a fashion born some times ago.

[djpool]

hi everyone,

Ray-it was your comment that prompted me to post this.I figured a stand alone thread would get more members to look.

John, I'LL post some pics of the back later.

Gary, From the pic it looks like one of the worse copies I've seen.

François and K98- Unfortunately there are true stories of finds in museums, etc. A trusted friend in Germany told me they found a stash of insignia within the last month.Mostly common items but also a few dozen pairs of LWFD tabs.
I know that a few years ago another stash was found in the former eastern Germany. Problem here is that some dealers continue to use that find to "authenticate" insignia that was never a part of that find.
So the real problem is trying to sort fact from fiction IMHO.

wr Jim