Panzer denim HBT trousers

[Soldat de Fer]

Hello

Yes repro have become very good ,but are still easy to spot (except on pictures obviously for us!!!) . Fakers have a hard time reproducing the perfect HBT weave.
I agree ,that a hand on inspection will give it a 100%. but after looking at the better pictures ,to me the HBT is good.
Now ,if this is the new generation of fake I don't know what to do ?!!
Regards
Pierre-Yves

[Langemark]

Jim, you again did a very nice work by posting several interesting close-ups. Thanks a lot.
The buttonholes seem very close in construction on both examples. However, on ‘my’ trousers some buttonholes are much less nicely made (some small parts are even missing or unfinished, leaving the inner strengthening thread visible).
Like on your example, the white markings are indistinct and I also had problems to take a correct picture without the flash. ‘My’ example exhibits a F44.
I agree with your observations comparing original and fake HBT.
Jim, I have one more question about your trousers : do you also find different types of HBT fabric used in hidden places (pockets and side slits) ? I realized that at least 4 different types of HBT (coarser, finer, clearer or darker) were used in the construction of ‘my’ example !

Well, Pierre-Yves, although I don’t have Jim’s talent for close-up photography, it seems that at long last I managed to post some pictures that do justice to the HBT of the discussed trousers ! As I said earlier, I had already compared the HBT with two original Panzer jackets and could notice that the weave + color matched perfectly. One detail that I would like to point out is that on original HBT one can perceive some tiny vegetal parts interwoven in the HBT.

Mike, for your information, I forgot to say that my HBT Panzer jacket has the four lower front buttonholes straight stitched, exactly as on your trousers.

Have a nice week-end,
Mark

[Langemark]

Just to illustrate what I tried to explain about the ugly made and nearly unfinished buttonholes :

Mark

[djpool]

Jim, you again did a very nice work by posting several interesting close-ups. Thanks a lot.
The buttonholes seem very close in construction on both examples. However, on ‘my’ trousers some buttonholes are much less nicely made (some small parts are even missing or unfinished, leaving the inner strengthening thread visible).
Like on your example, the white markings are indistinct and I also had problems to take a correct picture without the flash. ‘My’ example exhibits a F44.
I agree with your observations comparing original and fake HBT.
Jim, I have one more question about your trousers : do you also find different types of HBT fabric used in hidden places (pockets and side slits) ? I realized that at least 4 different types of HBT (coarser, finer, clearer or darker) were used in the construction of ‘my’ example !

Well, Pierre-Yves, although I don’t have Jim’s talent for close-up photography, it seems that at long last I managed to post some pictures that do justice to the HBT of the discussed trousers ! As I said earlier, I had already compared the HBT with two original Panzer jackets and could notice that the weave + color matched perfectly. One detail that I would like to point out is that on original HBT one can perceive some tiny vegetal parts interwoven in the HBT.

Mike, for your information, I forgot to say that my HBT Panzer jacket has the four lower front buttonholes straight stitched, exactly as on your trousers.

Have a nice week-end,
Mark

Hi Mark,

Theres a good chance your pants are real IMHO. Of course I haven't actually examined that many.Actually the two sets I have are the only ones I have checked out in detail. So comments from members like Scott Prichett and MR Singer would be much more valuable.

To answer your question I didn't find any scraps used for finish work on my pants.Slight difference in colors but the materials were pretty much the same throughout.

Your buttonholes are certainly not of the highest quality but I've seen that before on other original pieces.

WR Jim

[Langemark]

Jim, I apologize for my delayed reply and I thank you for your objective evaluation on these trousers.

In the meanwhile, I had the opportunity to discuss with other cloth collectors and we also came to the conclusion that the trousers are original.

The everlasting problem is when an item is found mint + has minimal construction variations compared with known originals, we suddenly begin to doubt : this is especially the case with undocumented late-war uniforms. On the other hand, this helps us to improve our knowledge as it pushes us study the items quite in depth.

Best,
Mark

[derka]

hello,

very interesting thread.

i would not formulate any opinion about the differents pants showed, because as you all noticed, repros of differents origins (from france, yes, i saw some...)have now a hight level.

but if it can help for comparison, i have a meagre contribution;
some pictures of well worn panzer denim pants that you classify in US, if i understood corectly, as a "first model".

[derka]

hope photos are ok

[derka]

last ones







sorry, i'm not very "pro" for close wiews.

derka