Panzer denim HBT trousers

[djpool]

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[djpool]

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[djpool]

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[djpool]

last comparison shot

[djpool]

I also tried to compare the HBT material.Heres the weave on my 1st model pants.

[djpool]

2d model weave

[B. N. Singer]

Notice the distance between the slant pocket and cargo pocket.

The pocket distance is an interesting observation but irrelevant, however, there are other comparison features that appear quite "telling."

B. N. Singer

[SJP]

Nice work Jim Cheers Steve

[Langemark]

Pierre-Yves, I agree that the previous close-up (taken with a flashlight) showed a rather glossy HBT. So, as requested, I took other pictures of the HBT weave under daylight. I selected two close-ups taken at different times :
the first shows the right reed-green color …

[Langemark]

… and the second has the more bluish tint (like on Mike’s pictures).
Mark<O</O

[Langemark]

Jim, I appreciate and thank you for the work you did by posting pictures of your trousers for comparison. This allows us to notice similarities and also some differences that could led to a further discussion :

- The RBNr looks identical. Did you manage to read the first numbers and the manufacture year on your example ? The marking seem to be located on the other side than on ‘my’ example ? Yours is located on the left hip whereas mine is located on the usual right side (nothing to worry about ; only a comparison !).

- Construction and features are very close as would be expected by the same manufacturer.

- Of interest is that the buttonholes look of equally speedy production (which can also be observed on late-war simplified shoulder straps).

- The metallic belt hook on your example matches the width of the belt much more than the one on ‘my’ example. However, this is not a point of concern as I have seen classic black Panzer trousers that also have a ‘too wide’ belt hook for the web belt.

- Notice that the back pockets on both examples are not connected to the waistband. I mean that, in general, the lining of the back pockets rises up to the waistband and is sewn into it. However, some late-war trousers show identical disconnection between the pocket lining and the waistband. I don’t know if I’m clear here and that’s why I prefer to post a comparison picture. At left : usual connection of the rear pocket lining with the waistband (also present on Mike’s trousers, Francis’ and Jim’s early trousers). Center : discussed HBT Panzer trousers showing the absence of connection. Right : similar disconnected pocket lining on a M43-style Keilhose made in 1944.



Any additional observations are welcome,
Mark

[djpool]

Jim, I appreciate and thank you for the work you did by posting pictures of your trousers for comparison. This allows us to notice similarities and also some differences that could led to a further discussion :

- The RBNr looks identical. Did you manage to read the first numbers and the manufacture year on your example ? The marking seem to be located on the other side than on ‘my’ example ? Yours is located on the left hip whereas mine is located on the usual right side (nothing to worry about ; only a comparison !).


Mark

Mark et al,

Your very welcome. I'm pretty sure they are dated 44-either F or E. Its very difficult to read them.depending on the light and angle the stamp becomes invisible. I can't read the rest of the RBN but there are other numbers there. Heres a picture of the stamp under natural household light. When I use the flash you can see the stamp.Without a flash they disappear. Bob Hritz and I both have 44 dated third model wraps using the same type of ink. In fact Bob had his wrap for several decades and never realized it was stamped. Under the right lighting it was visible. Jim

[djpool]

Jim, I appreciate and thank you for the work you did by posting pictures of your trousers for comparison. This allows us to notice similarities and also some differences that could led to a further discussion :

- Construction and features are very close as would be expected by the same manufacturer.

- Of interest is that the buttonholes look of equally speedy production (which can also be observed on late-war simplified shoulder straps).

- The metallic belt hook on your example matches the width of the belt much more than the one on ‘my’ example. However, this is not a point of concern as I have seen classic black Panzer trousers that also have a ‘too wide’ belt hook for the web belt.

- Notice that the back pockets on both examples are not connected to the waistband. I mean that, in general, the lining of the back pockets rises up to the waistband and is sewn into it. However, some late-war trousers show identical disconnection between the pocket lining and the waistband. I don’t know if I’m clear here and that’s why I prefer to post a comparison picture. At left : usual connection of the rear pocket lining with the waistband (also present on Mike’s trousers, Francis’ and Jim’s early trousers). Center : discussed HBT Panzer trousers showing the absence of connection. Right : similar disconnected pocket lining on a M43-style Keilhose made in 1944.



Any additional observations are welcome,
Mark

Mark,

I'm still studying your pictures, especially the HBT material. Still not sure what to make of your pants yet.There are definately some positive aspects to them. Heres a detailed study of one of the button holes on my pair. WR Jim

[Soldat de Fer]

Ok !!!

Hello

Mark ,after reviewing your pictures again and the new one you posted ,I have come to the conclusion that your pants are 100% original HBT .
It's amazing to me ,how a better picture can change your mind .
Shows that sometimes ,we based our opinions on "not so good pictures".
Anyway ,there is nothing better than a good old " hand inspection".
Hope this will help you.
Best Regards
Pierre-yves

[djpool]

Hello

Mark ,after reviewing your pictures again and the new one you posted ,I have come to the conclusion that your pants are 100% original HBT .
It's amazing to me ,how a better picture can change your mind .
Shows that sometimes ,we based our opinions on "not so good pictures".
Anyway ,there is nothing better than a good old " hand inspection".
Hope this will help you.
Best Regards
Pierre-yves

I agree that from the additional pics the HBT looks better.However without a hands on check I'm reluctant to say its 100%.The repro HBT material has gotten extremely good. I had the opportunity to compare the HBT material used for the Heer splinter smocks against some original material. Its amazing how good it is. Heres a high resolution comparison I did. The item marked test is repro. The weave is darn near perfect. Biggest flaws were material too fuzzy, thread a bit too wide and dye absorbtion was poor. The material was also a little thicker than the original material. I haven't had the oppurtunity to analyze any repro HBT material used on drill uniforms.WR Jim