Well used Ist Model Piped Panzer Jacket

[francis006]

Jim , i already saw this piping one time on a pz wrap . it has been found in Italy ,same badly added piping and also strange shoulder boards but can't remember why ? On yours , it seems the tabs have been re sewn , i see other traces at the back

[djpool]

Some very interesting details for sure! IM not sure what to make of some of them...have to think this one through...addition of soutache on collar is unique. Is the button hole that is on the lapel gimp corded or done with a sewing machine foot attchement? Hard to tell from this vantage point....and...I assume..but Im not an expert here on these earlier piped jackets..that they were originaly void of lapel buttons to button the collar all the way up.and also the corresponding button holes? I owned a long time ago a beautiful Rome privately tailored stug full colonels officers wrapper..gorgoues..and about as non textbook as one would ever find..but in summation..just a stunning piece.wish I still had it..I only bring it up as although it was most likely made in 43/44 when elements of the SSlah were transfered to Italy after Kursk...(it was an army wrapper and not SS) it was a total "hybrid" of ss and army pattern..but definitely always army..but..the point being.it had only one lapel buttonhole..couldnt be buttoned all the way up..only one was added however added in the original tailoring process to allow the wearer to affix his Ost medialle ribbon..so...if the first model's had no lapel lbuttons..would this be an additon but done subsequently for just this purpose? If its a lapel buttonhole done during manufactureing..then it would mystify me as to the absence of the others..Im trying to make out depot date..is it 38? Let me know on the lapel buttonhole how its corded..!

HI Scott,

The Germans surely modified or completely tailored uniforms that didn't conform to standard production patterns. I think period pictures establish that.Big problem in the collectors market is trying to prove if a piece is actually wartime or not.

To me this one really doesn't constitute a major modification. I think it started life as a depot issue 1st model tunic (no provisions to close the lapels, wool piped). The soldier made modifications to suite his personal taste and also repaired it to extend its use. The only real modification was adding the hook/eye, 2 buttons and 2 button holes so the jacket could be closed. I think replacing the piping might have been a repair.

For whatever reason the original piping was removed.Either by order or because it became unserviceable. In any case he wanted the piping replaced. The workmanship on replacing the piping isn't of a very high standard. I think thats why soutache might have been chosen instead of using wool. Its less complicated to apply IMHO.

Heres a picture front and back of one of the buttonholes. I'm not positive but this might be hand sewn.

Its not the prettiest jacket out there but it does have character.

I'll have to recheck the date in the morning.

WR Jim

[djpool]

Jim , i already saw this piping one time on a pz wrap . it has been found in Italy ,same piping and also strange shoulder boards but can't remember why ? On yours , it seems the tabs have been re sewn , i see other traces at the back

Francis,

I would love to have seen pics of the wrap you mention. I only saw soutache used on one other wrap which was postwar applied IMHO. I'll recheck the backs of the tabs tomorrow and maybe take better pics. WR jim

[Scott A. Hess]

Hello Jim..once owned a first Model DAK that the officer had tailored to make the collar close...green collar added.and the addition of a button hole just as here on yours with the two additional button holes..I agree..not a major modification here..from the pics you provided of the two button holes..it dosnt appear to have been done on a foot attachment on a sewing machine..appears to me hand done..and on the front side..rather well done for hand sewing...the thread color on the sewing for the screw back probably iron cross loosk the same as that used on thse two buttonholes..makes sense that he wanted to keep the early look of the piping..and also make the wrapper close up all the way tight...my bet is its perfectly wartime done...it just looks like something that a unit tailor probably didnt do...they would be quite a bit more sophisticated..my ex father in law was in the DAK and tailor by trade...he used to do a lot of sewing for guys..but his was of a real high calibre..this appears to be someone probaby that either had some sewing skills and did it himself..or someone who knew someone in the unit that had some skills...looks period done to me.

[francis006]

I would love to have seen pics of the wrap you mention. I only saw soutache used on one other wrap which was postwar applied IMHO

Sorry Jim i have no pics .. I just can tell it was a real wrap and in used condition as yours .The piping was hand sewn and in place since a long time in sight of the condition. It sadly was on a mannikin and i realy had not time enough to check all the details as i usualy like to do

[djpool]

Jim , i already saw this piping one time on a pz wrap . it has been found in Italy ,same badly added piping and also strange shoulder boards but can't remember why ? On yours , it seems the tabs have been re sewn , i see other traces at the back

Francis,

It wouldn't surprise me if the tabs had been replaced at one time. I know that this model wrap continued to see service till the end of the war.Question is whether those issued later had rayon piped tabs or a better question is whether "were all models of this jacket originally fitted with wool piped tabs?"

Anyway here are pictures of both tabs.I lightened the pics so the stitching is more visible. WR Jim

[djpool]

The other side

[djpool]

Hello Jim..once owned a first Model DAK that the officer had tailored to make the collar close...green collar added.and the addition of a button hole just as here on yours with the two additional button holes..I agree..not a major modification here..from the pics you provided of the two button holes..it dosnt appear to have been done on a foot attachment on a sewing machine..appears to me hand done..and on the front side..rather well done for hand sewing...the thread color on the sewing for the screw back probably iron cross loosk the same as that used on thse two buttonholes..makes sense that he wanted to keep the early look of the piping..and also make the wrapper close up all the way tight...my bet is its perfectly wartime done...it just looks like something that a unit tailor probably didnt do...they would be quite a bit more sophisticated..my ex father in law was in the DAK and tailor by trade...he used to do a lot of sewing for guys..but his was of a real high calibre..this appears to be someone probaby that either had some sewing skills and did it himself..or someone who knew someone in the unit that had some skills...looks period done to me.

Hi Scott,

I mean a lot of this is subjective but the look of the insignia matches the wear on the rest of the tunic which is a positive. Even the threads are faded in places you would expect them to be. I also think the different styles of sewing is a big plus. We have some things done by a person with little skill ,to what in my opinion was a experienced tailor. It took a lot of effort to apply the breast eagle. IMO it would have required unstitching the lining and then restitching it after the eagle was sewn on. I can see no evidence the liner was messed with.

Well got to run some chores.

WR Jim

PS Its dated 1936

[francis006]

IMO it would have required unstitching the lining and then restitching it after the eagle was sewn on. I can see no evidence the liner was messed with.

Yes Jim , with a machine sewn eagle, the lining should have been unstitched . I'm sure you know where to look at
For the boards , i still think the could have been replaced (see few old threads and traces )

[djpool]

Yes Jim , with a machine sewn eagle, the lining should have been unstitched . I'm sure you know where to look at
For the boards , i still think the could have been replaced (see few old threads and traces )

Francis,

Theres no way this is the first set of boards on the jacket. I see evidence of a more professional job being done at some time. It would be nice if I had the history of the previous owner. WR Jim