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**alexandre** · 04-27-2006, 11:29 AM

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**alexandre** · 04-27-2006, 11:30 AM

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**galizien41** · 04-27-2006, 12:52 PM

Axel,
I have several pairs of different waffenfarbe with this construction. IMO these are 100% original. I like these pairs. Some people do not like these, I do.
There were a lot of different pairs found of these several years ago, and I think Weitze and other big European dealers bought them all up at a German show(Stuttgart?). I got several pairs last year for around 40-60 dollars a pair. They were made in white and green for the HG and FD troops. All pairs. I think you can wear either white or red piped luft boards with them.
Hope this helps.
I actually have 2 like these on for FD and on HG with skulls on them for the assault gun.

**billh** · 04-27-2006, 08:37 PM

HG Tabs

Hi Alexandre - I like the tabs as well. I've found several like them- both FD & HG - over the years from what I believe to be good sources. Bill

**Laurence Strong** · 04-27-2006, 11:35 PM

Those would be HG. By order dated January 1943, it would be for Artillery Regiment, Flak Regiment, or the Fuhrer Flak Battalion The Feld Division collar tabs were rifle green (Jagergrun) with piping in the branch color. Hope this helps

**PaulR** · 04-28-2006, 05:31 AM

...and people are suspicious of these tabs because of the fact they were only authorized for wear for about three months yet there seems to be an endless supply of them on the collector's market.

During the short period of time these tabs were used, white piped shoulder boards would be worn with this style of tab(no matter the waffenfarbe noted on the tab piping).

These are Hermann Goering Tabs piped for Arty, like previously stated.

I do not claim to be an "expert" when it comes to these. Yet as a collector of LW tabs(I have well over 100 sets and seen/handled countless more),I do not like them. The material on the face of the tab plus the stiffener does not look "right"(I know that this term is relative) to me.

**alexandre** · 04-29-2006, 01:14 AM

Thans to all for your answers !
I thought these tabs were worn with red piped shoulder boards (that seems logical)
Someone has good source to eventually confirm that ?

**PaulR** · 04-29-2006, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by alexandre

Thans to all for your answers !
I thought these tabs were worn with red piped shoulder boards (that seems logical)
Someone has good source to eventually confirm that ?

Hi Alexandre,

I actually have two of these sources which will confirm what I am saying...

In accordance with :

"Uniforms and Tradions of the Luftwaffe", vol 2, by John Angolia, pages 249-254

AND

Uniforms and Insignia of the Luftwaffe, Volume 2: 1940-1945, by Brian L Davis, pages 55-56

Both state the following in regard to the Hermann Goering Div...

In January 1943, tabs were created and mandated that were white, edged with the waffenfarbe of their speciality. Officers wore the officer piping(twisted aluminum) tabs. Shoulder straps, without exception, were piped white. This excluded medical officers/men, General Officers, and General Staff officers, who retained their original insginia.

This regulation was withdrawn in April of 1943. At this time, all collar tabs were without the waffenfarbe piping. They were solid white tabs. Waffenfarbe was reflected on the piping on the shoulder boards only.

Finally, on 3 January 1944, the white collar tabs were removed all together from the field uniform(for camoflage purposes). Enlisted men and NCOs were authortized to wear gulls denoting rank when applied directly on the collar. Shoulder boards were retained. Also, NCO tresse was required to be the gray subdued version.

I hope that this helps.

Regards
Paul

**PaulR** · 04-29-2006, 07:29 AM

Here are some examples of the Jan-Apr 43 tabs on tunics available from the collectors guild...

Arty
http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Luftw...os/L14853.html

signals

http://www.germanmilitaria.com/Luftw...os/L14253.html

Please note the shoulder board and tab configuration.

**Paul Walmsley** · 04-29-2006, 11:09 PM

Paul I understand form Bender (Schiffer) and Williamson(Osprey) that the HG units used green and red edged white tabs from 1936 until 1943.(most units were flak artillery and jager) "General Goring" was a regt from 1935-1942.
In Jan 1943 the green color changed to white waffenfarbe edging as the Jagers were re-named Grenadiers. This was part of the expansion to Divisional level. (Started in 1942)Flak/ artillery still stayed red. Shoulder straps were still with white waffenfarbe for all units.
(the FJ Bn (5th FJ Regt) added on paper, was re-named the Jager Bn (though they were already in Tunisia and never really changed to HG uniforms )
In April 1943 the big changes occured where the collar tabs lost their waffenfarbe edging, and the shoulder straps picked it up. By then there was no green in use-at least by regs.

The big rare items would therefore be the white edged grenadier collar patches Jan-April 1943.(which had a black line between the white patch and the white edging)
I'm no expert but these sources do seem to indicate what i've written. If I've misunderstood please LMK I'm v interested in this unit

**PaulR** · 04-30-2006, 08:06 AM

Hi Paul,

From everything I read, you are 100% correct on the early history! I have never seen an example for the white edged tabs before! Thank you for your contribution here!

**TJ Suter** · 04-30-2006, 04:39 PM

Something that has not been mentioned yet, and which makes me doubtful that this pair is original is the reverse. I am suspicious of the strange buckram backing. I've never run across any like it on original tabs.

I've also never seen the back constructed in that manner. The Germans were anal, but that didn't extend to cutting 45 degree corners and ensuring the cloth on the back was of equal length.

I believe the gulls are original and they look like they have some wear on them, but the tabs themselves are mint with no wear. To me that adds up to reproduction tabs with period gulls.

If I were offered these tabs I'd have to pass.

**PaulR** · 04-30-2006, 04:50 PM

I agree with Tom 110% on his findings.

Upon closer inspection, I am not too keen on the piping material either.

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HG Flak Collar tabs

HG Flak Collar tabs

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