Kraftradschuetzenkompanie Waffenfarbe???

[bergfuehrer]

Gruess Gott Kameraden!

Kraftradschuetzenkompanie

What waffenfarbe is correct for this unit? Especially I'm interested of waffenfarbe of 17th Company of Grossdeutschland Regiment.

Danke im voraus!

Ltn. Wietmeyer

[Paul Walmsley]

Kradshcutzen battalione GD
1 company -yellow (armoured cars)
2-5 company (m/c) -grass green
I assume that the unit you mention wore white as part of Infantry Bn?

[CSP]

Paul: Where do you get the information on the Waffenfarbe for these companies?

Ltn Wietmeyer - withouyt digging in to my files, I believe the 17. Kompanie came in to existence as the Heavy Infantry Gun Kompanie when GD expanded to a Division (mot). I believe the color of piping it used would have been white.

[gdfuseddie]

Paul, long time since this post but I am also interested in this specific company of GD. I am under the belief that the waffenfarbe for 17th (Motorcyle) Company IRGD was white. The colour didn't change until after the formation of the division.

The question did ask about Infantry Regiment GD, which was in existance prior to the formation of the GD division which happened in the early part of 1942. The details you have given would be for after the formation of the division, which was when the Motorcyle Battalion GD was formed.

The Motorcyle Battalion GD was renamed Reconnaissance Battalion in January 1943, then later Armoured Reconnaissance Battalion. I am informed that by this point the waffenfarbe was cavalry yellow, but it may have changed as early as May 1942.

If anyone thinks this information is wrong, please spread the word on here. I have recently asked this question myself under the thread 'Motorcycle Troops Waffenfarbe', in the 'Wehrmacht Uniforms and Insignia Forum' on here.

[Johnny R]

This is discussed in the Pruett Edwards book, some units appear to have worn Green as well.

[Panzer Bob]

Kupferbraun et al

Hello,
It's my understanding the the infantry regiments of GD uniformly wore white, including the heavy weapons and special-purpose companies.
The same was generally true of motorcycle battalions and reconnaissance betallons, that is, the battalions all wore a uniform branch color--generally rose pink, golden yellow or copper brown--regardless of the fact that subordinate units (e.g. motorcycle/half-track companies, heavy weapons companies and armored car companies) might have a legitimate claim to a different branch color if they had been separate entities.
Of course, cadre personnel and replacements from other units/formations may have also continued to wear the branch color of their previous formation of assignment, so the picture becomes very blurry very quickly.
Regards,
Bob Edwards

[Johnny R]

Hi Bob, you or Mike had the last paragraph in the section on Krad mentioning companies 2-5 wore meadow green. It would follow that earlier krad assciated with the earleir units and Rgt. GD would have worn white with a GD, that begs the question did they also wear a "k"? Talk about the Dream shoulder boards- "GD" over "K".

[Panzer Bob]

Recon Colors

John,
You are right, although I am also probably right inasmuch as there seemed to be a bewildering array and great discrepancies between what was supposed to be worn and what was actually worn. Of course, I also forgot to mention "weiß" as a Waffenfarbe possibility.
One of my favorit shoulder boards of all time is one n the hands of an advanced insignia collector. It is for a Leutnant. It has the clear outline of a "K" and only the numerals "23" remaining. It started life with rose-pink piping, but the owner converted the board to copper-brown piping. It's the perfect single board for demonstrating the ofttimes bewildering variety encounter with reconnaissance forces.
And yes, a GD strap with a small "k" cipher as well would be killer!
Regards,
Bob

[derka]

hello,

i'm not specialized with "GD", so i won't comment too much about this particualr unit.
as far i know, for Feldheer during war period, you can find a "K" + arabic n° on a shoulder strap when it identifies an Abteilung/Bataillone level for this particular kind of motorcycle unit, acording to the proper Kriegsstärkenachweisungen (KStN) at the period considered.
except with pink or meadow green , i have never seen until now a "k" + n° with another colour piping, because those colors were not specificaly intended for Krafradschützenbataillone, so a distinctive sign had to be worn.
and i have never seen a believable copperbrown piped shoulder strap with a "K"; i observed them only with a number, or with a "A" + n°, or without any letter or n° : after october 1941, this color (worn untill 1936 for signals and between 1939 and 1941 for motorized reco groups with a "A") was worn only (in Heer) by motorcycle units untill marsh 1943.
for all specific purpose Kp. (like Pak, Flak, Aufkl, Schwer, Pio., etc...) you could find with OB's variations in a same Rgt (infanterie, schützen, pzgrenadiere, jagers...), the same color piping had to be worn acording regulation orders, but without Kp. n° (even on shoulder straps buttons), nor "A" or "P" or "K"...
so i'm not convinced than in a same organic independant Abt. or Bat., you could find different colours of piping, even in "GD", like this :
Kradshcutzen battalione GD
1 company -yellow (armoured cars)
2-5 company (m/c) -grass green
of course, regs and reality were different, and Bob's exemple is a good reflect of this...
but maybe someone have ever seen a "GD" shoulder strap with the monogram + a letter or a n° ?

derka

[Schulterklappen]

K6

For a Waffenrock.

[Michael H. Pruett]

17.(Kradschtz.) Kp. Inf. Rgt. (mot.) GD/Kradschz.-Btl. GD

Interesting thread! Here is what I know.
17.(Kradschtz.) Kp. Inf. Rgt. (mot.) GD wore white branch color as did the rest of the Regiment (exception, 16. (StuG) Kompanie.
In 1942 when the Regiment was expanded into a Division branch colors came into use.
In Kradschützen-Btl. GD
1. (Panzerspäh) Schwadron the black Panzer uniform was worn with golden yellow branch color.
2. (SPW) Schwadron meadow green branch color
3. (VW) Schwadron meadow green branch color
4. (VW) Schwadron meadow green branch color
5. (schwere) Schwadron meadow green branch color

On Jan. 18, 1943 the Kradschützen-Btl. GD was reformed as Panzeraufklärungs-Abteilung GD and golden yellow branch color was worn by the entire Abteilung until the end of the war.

As a further note, in Jan. 1944 the SPW crews of PzAA GD were outfitted with the field-gray Sturmartillerie uniforms.


This information was provided by the late Helmuth Spaeter and the veterans of the Kradschützen-Btl. GD & Panzeraufklärungs-Abteilung GD .

I hope this helps.

Mike

[gdfuseddie]

Michael,

I think you've provided the answer to comprehensively cover this and further questions on GD shoulder boards, from 1940 - 1945.

Thanks for the help

[brooksbz]

This is a good thread. I have seen black GD boards with white piping and cyphers. I believe these were worn by the Fuehrer Escort Battalion. Were then worn exclusively with black wraps with TK collar tabs white piping? Field gray uniforms?

[Richard P]

This is a good thread. I have seen black GD boards with white piping and cyphers. I believe these were worn by the Fuehrer Escort Battalion. Were then worn exclusively with black wraps with TK collar tabs white piping? Field gray uniforms?

Brooksbz,

Yes...the white piped and lettered boards with all black cloth construction were for the black panzer wrap exclusively.

Field gray or stug uniforms of the escort battalion wore the white piping with field gray and corresponding cuff titles.

Richard

[MadJack]

For a Waffenrock.