Question on lightweight LW flight jackets

[SprogCollector]

First off, this is a superb site! I've been trolling through old posts for several days and have already learned more in the past few days than I thought I'd learned over the past several months.

I've found a few interesting threads on lightweight flight jackets and have come up with some questions about them (newbie syndrome!).

Does anyone of this board possess one of the white (cream color?) lightweight cloth jackets? I've seen a few b&w images of them but none overly clear. I'm interested in the collar detail, in particular, as the rest of the jacket appears very similar to the blue version. The collar on the white jacket looks like a simple flap of wool. I was also curious what color the knits are on these?

Thanks,
BC

[Gene]

No one here to my knowledge has a cream colored example; they are the hardest piece of flight to acquire.

[SprogCollector]

Lightweight jacket

Gene,
Thanks for your reply. From the few pictures I have, the cream colored jackets appear (outwardly) to be extremely similar to the blue version except for having a different collar. I guess curiosity has me wondering if there was a blue version made with a similar collar or are there photos of the cream colored jacket with a similar cloth collar to the blue jacket?

[Scott A. Hess]

The "great white" as one collector coined the term are ellusive! I've heard recently of one collector possessing TWO originals mint in his collection at one point..and believe based upon the information and source that its quite accurate and reliable. However..out of respect for the information and owner.. ...I've never held one in hand..not many people I believe have..it..along with its blue counterpart..was something that very easily could have been worn postwar as just a lightweight windbreaker with great ease..if you've held them..they in all respects are no better made than a K-Mart jacket..the Kmart ones probably better in quaity! Having said that..not a great quanity probably survived the war..

I sold my blue one a few years ago ;( ohhhh it still hurts!

[Gene]

Gene,
Thanks for your reply. From the few pictures I have, the cream colored jackets appear (outwardly) to be extremely similar to the blue version except for having a different collar. I guess curiosity has me wondering if there was a blue version made with a similar collar or are there photos of the cream colored jacket with a similar cloth collar to the blue jacket?

No ideer. I can only go by pics like everyone else until one surfaces from a collection.

[Lucky Duck]

I know a collector who has (or had) one. The collar and cuffs are a very loosely knit wool in a blue gray color. And I'd agree with Ingsoc's comments concerning the lower quality of this garment.

HTH
Ray

[SprogCollector]

Many thanks to all who replied to this thread. Special thanks for hs132 for providing some very detailed info on the 'great white'. Amazing what a few pictures can do for research.

As it stands, my understanding of cloth flight jackets shows the following as being seen:

1. White cloth jacket with floppy knit collar. Aside from the collar, these appear pretty cimilar to the grey-blue version. As a sidenote, I have observed that in one image of Walter Oseau, his white jacket appears to have knit cuffs while the remaining pictures I've seen show a cuff similar to the one on the blue jacket. I was very surpised to learn the floppy collar is apparently removable.

2. Grey-blue jacket with knit waist and cloth collar. Knits seem to vary a bit in colour.

3. Tropical jacket with cloth waistband and two snaps. (same configuration as the winter flying jackets (both cloth and sheepskin)

4. Grey blue version with cloth waistband and two snaps. The photos I've seen (not too many) would tend to lead me to believe this was wired for heated boots and gloves?

Does this sound somewhat correct?

[hs132]

Hello Sprog, spent the last week riding ATCs and guzzling beer in Baja Mexico. To my knowledge the floppy wool collar on the Great White is not removable. I would be eager to see any info that might suggest otherwise. I also would disagree wholeheartedly of any suggestion that these 3 types of pilot windbreakers are of flimsy cheap quality. They are made of high quality materials and are made to be durable and long lasting. While Im not a Kmart shopper, that comparison is way off etc. The blue/grey jacket with the velour collar and lining is an electric heated type. Of the three types of Luft pilot windbreakers, Ive never seen an example of "knitted cuffs" unless it was a private tailored addition. I have seen pics that show the wear of the Luft pullover sweater worn underneath the white jacket with the knitted cuffs extending under the sleeves. Regards Bill

[SprogCollector]

Bill,
Thanks for your comments. I've not personally seen or handled any original cloth flight jackets so have no idea how well they're made.

I am curious on the white jackets. The images I have seem to be from only two or three series of photos and these images were acquired from other online sources and/or the few books that I have.

The attached images of Oseau were used as basis for my earlier comments regarding possible removable collar (first image) and knit cuffs (second image).

In looking at the first image, I see something that resembles a button along the inside edge of the collar, just visible inboard of upper end of the zipper on the wearers left side. On the opposite side, there only appears to be a single row of stitching visible along the neck edge of the collar. Tough to tell if this is an attachment stitch to the body of the jacket or whether it's simply a finished edge to the knits? Seems insufficient to hold on a collar, considering the wear and tear this area is subjected to. I would have thought a permanent collar would have been attached in a more substantial way.



Second image might be exactly as you say -- an exposed jumper cuff. I can't tell if the cuff is attached or not.

[Jos L C]

IMO these collars were permanent,otherwise we would've seen these jacket with removed collars once in a while..

I guess there were 2 types/models of white jackets..


Jos.