Opinions on re-wrapped shoulder boards

[Dave Suter]

Have a pair of officer shoulder boards in hand that originally had pink waffenfarbe. At some point, the Russia braid was removed and the boards had black waffenfarbe material added over the pink. The Russia braid was then sewn back on. The boards look original, but the logic of it seems questionable to me. The boards are for a field grade officer (colonel). Why would they go to all the trouble of taking the Russia braid off, adding the second base covering and then sewing the Russia braid back on? Why not just get a pair that was originally black. Not like it's a scarce color.

Have any of the rest of you seen this re-wrapping on original boards?

[djpool]

Dave,

Heres a pair of GD Panzer boards that were originally cavalry piped.jim

[Albert]

Hi Dave,

Yes, I had an untouched officer M36 tunic with same type of modification. Originaly, the boards were pink Panzer piped, later they got wrapped in white Inf. piping. Just like Jim's.

Best regards,
Albert

[Dave Suter]

Thanks guys! The boards I have in hand certainly look period done, but it just wasn't something I'd run across before. Unlike Jim's, the one's I have had the entire back re-covered in the same manner as the first backing cloth was applied. I much appreciate your input. (Even us old b-tards learn new things.)

[TJ Suter]

Does anyone have any idea or theory as to why this was done? Seems like a lot of trouble to take the braid off, adding the new branch color, then re-sewing the braid back on. Why not just purchase a new set of boards? I wouldn't think cost would be a factor for officers, especially field grade officers.

[Bill H.]

Does anyone have any idea or theory as to why this was done? Seems like a lot of trouble to take the braid off, adding the new branch color, then re-sewing the braid back on. Why not just purchase a new set of boards? I wouldn't think cost would be a factor for officers, especially field grade officers.

Hi Tom,

It was a field modification. When your out in the middle of Russia someplace a million miles from home and the word comes down to change insignia what's a fellow to do??? It appears that even in the elite Grossdeutschland Division they didn't carry around spare insignia - at least not enough for eveybody.

When I first saw these boards they were in the collection of Mike Pruett and I believe they appear in his and Bob Edward's book on Panzer Uniforms of the Third Reich. The story as I remember it was that this particular officer was in a cav outfit that got re-fitted and re-designated as a panzer abteilung. This change was made simply because the correct insignia was not available at the time.

It wouldn't suprise me in the least to see similar things happening with officers even of the rank of Oberst as your dad opened this thread with. There are uniforms out there with "theatre made" insignia - which generally scare off the vast majority of collectors but there is enough photographic evidence to support the theory of the practice. Check out some of the foreign volunteers of the Waffen SS photos sometime. They would never pass inspection in a re-enactor unit But, I digress.....

Suffice to say when you encounter these modified boards you've probably hit upon something that has been there.

Cheers, Bill Huber

[Michael H. Pruett]

Kompanieschneider

Hello Suter guys,

I’ll try to follow-up on what my good friend Mr. Bill Huber had to say. I fully agree with his statement that this was a field modification and more than likely the work of the Kompanieschneider. The Germans during the war, especially during the late war years were very frugal people and were possibly the inventors of RECYCLE!

This is purely theory on my part Dave but I suspect the original owner of your boards may have served with a Panzer unit and then transferred to a Panzerpionier-Batl. so therefore, he had the Company Field tailor change his branch color.

I have seen several branch changed straps and boards and have seen several straps/boards/tunics where the unit branch color was originally white and when the unit was changed into a Schützen-Regimenter. (Note: a number of Inf.-Divisons were converted into Panzer-Divisions in 1940) the white branch color was tailor tinted to meadow green branch color.

In Regards to Jim’s GD boards (which I once owned) I have always speculated that the officer that wore these once served with Panzeraufklärungs-Abt. GD and then transferred to Panzer-Rgt. GD. (the late Hellmuth Spaeter told me that Panzeraufklärungs-Abt. GD NEVER wore anything but golden yellow branch color.)

I hope this helps

Mike

[TJ Suter]

Thanks for the replies. Here are the boards Dave and I are discussing. You can see a bit of the pink peeking out on the bottom of the board on the right. They also appear to have had different devices on them at one time, however, the devices that are currently on the boards have been there a long time.

[Bill H.]

Love the boards! This mystery might easliy be solved since the officer in question most probably was the commanding officer of Fortress Engineer Regiment 3. Chances are there are probably not a whole lot of guys what held that position and researching those men's service records may reveal which one came from the Panzers or Panzer Abwehr or as Mike suggests Panzer Engineers. With that data you can pin down the exact original owner of those boards with a pretty high degree of certainty.

This might be able to be pulled off without a lot of letter writing or visits to the archives because this particular pair of boards with the Regt. number and Fp cypher indicates that this officer held the position fairly early in the war if not pre-war. If you happen to have the 1939 Rangliste of the Army you can look up the regiment and get the name of the commander. The 44/45 reprint by von Seemen will have it to but its not organized by branch and regiment as the 1939 version is. It might be good to cross check the two to see if the name changes and I suspect it would. Six years is a long time to go without a promotion during a world war.

Now lets imagine that this guy got one more promotion to Generalmajor. There are some fabulous references out there that detail the entire career of General officers and would thus provide insight into any panzer related background. Its worth a shot.
Hildebrand has a series of volumes detailing careers of Army Generals and is up to 5 volumes to letter H last I heard and they are super because they provide dates and location of birth and death, a photograph and details of every promotion and duty assignment.

I think the odds are better than 50/50 the original owner of these boards can be determined and by consulting currently available collector references.

Cheers, Bill Huber

[Langemark]

Hello All,

I even saw shoulder straps on which the piping simply had been painted (yes, with paint and not tinted) in a different color !

Best,
Mark