Panzer wrapper shoulder bias material ?

[MartyC]

I have a question for the panzer guys concerning the panzer wrapper shoulder bias material. Have any of you you seen this color of bias material before in a wrapper? This photo is from PVL's site for a very nice wrapper he has sold recently and I am only asking this for my continued education in the field.... Also while we are on the subject, is there a more technical term for this material? Perhaps Scott, Wade, Panzer Bob or others might comment since I know they have examined a lot of originals.

Thanks

Marty

[phild]

I have a question for the panzer guys concerning the panzer wrapper shoulder bias material. Have any of you you seen this color of bias material before in a wrapper? This photo is from PVL's site for a very nice wrapper he has sold recently and I am only asking this for my continued education in the field.... Also while we are on the subject, is there a more technical term for this material? Perhaps Scott, Wade, Panzer Bob or other might comment since I know they have examined a lot of originals.

Thanks

Marty

I see no red flags in that photo. There was a good deal of variation in that backing material in regards to tightness of weave,color and weight. This looks typical of what I have seen on many wartime wraps. I have seen the material in linen (flax) and more usually cotton. Colors can be found in white, off-white and beige/tan....there may be others.
This backing material is certainly not the only thing or even the most important thing to look for and I owuld expect that most wraps made to deceive have used fairly credible material in that area for the last 15 years or so.

[B. N. Singer]

I see no red flags in that photo. There was a good deal of variation in that backing material in regards to tightness of weave,color and weight. This looks typical of what I have seen on many wartime wraps. I have seen the material in linen (flax) and more usually cotton. Colors can be found in white, off-white and beige/tan....there may be others.
This backing material is certainly not the only thing or even the most important thing to look for and I owuld expect that most wraps made to deceive have used fairly credible material in that area for the last 15 years or so.

The picture of the "support material" could fall into the "passable" category, which as the previous comment stated, really means very little these days.

In unusual cases, I have also seen this "support material" (my term for it) in green and a deep blue.

Additional pictures would be needed for any attempt at an evaluation, but certainly I would think it unusual if the jacket were a late war example.

B. N. Singer

[Panzer Bob]

Bias Material

Good morning,
Can't add anything to what the previous two gentlemen have said. Their comments are spot on.
Regards,
Bob Edwards

[Glenn McInnes]

The picture of the "support material" could fall into the "passable" category, which as the previous comment stated, really means very little these days.

In unusual cases, I have also seen this "support material" (my term for it) in green and a deep blue.



B. N. Singer

I have seen it in both green and blue as well. I have an assault wrapper with the blue bias material and a Panzer wrap in green..


Glenn

[MartyC]

wrapper

Thanks for the comments thus far. To make it easier here is the link to the wrapper That has the bias material that is the topic of this thread, http://ww-2militaria.com/b/new/uc/uc0001/desc.htm

A some what rare example it would appear. Since the consensus seems to be that this material is not the salient item to look for in determing the originality of the wrapper (which I agree with ), what points would one look at upon examination of this particular jacket. I have not bought it or could afford to for that matter, so I have no skin in the game. I just think this one might serve as an example to analyze, so many of us forum members can get an idea of what our experienced collectors look for. I think the criterias most likely vary between collectors, so it would be interesting to see how many match up. Please PM me if you don't want to communicate in the clear. I will start by stating the obvious and that a physical examination is of course an absolute necessity. The feel and texture of the wool, the construction quality and the wear patterns in the neck area and cuffs as well as wear along the skirt need to be closely examined to determine if it is natural or contrived. Examination of the back of the collar as far as the reinforcement stitching and binding to the collar. The cuff opening and enclosure including the intenal material to these. Nap wear under the lapels, button attachment and sewing used to secure said buttons. Examination inside the front button hole enclosures, including examing the reach of the bias material deep into the lapel area for support. Markings inside including font types and placement. The internal belt support system construction, including the sewing style of the eyelets. The construction of the botton hem or seam and what is inside. The internal pleat and seam construction of the jacket along with the type of lining and pattern of this material as laid out in the wrapper. An examination of the pockets and the sewing used to secure these pockets. A close examination of the button holes and construction. The neck enclosure male and female ends and how these are shaped and worn. Not my all inclusive list, but a start. Any additional pointers would be appreciated and as I mentioned this is to educate our collector community which I think serves the general good of the hobby even though it can be tedious.

Thanks for your input, fire away......

Marty

[B. N. Singer]

I have seen it in both green and blue as well. I have an assault wrapper with the blue bias material and a Panzer wrap in green..


Glenn

Good morning Glenn,

How about posting some pictures of the "colored support material" on your two wraparounds for the forum members to get an idea of what is being discussed?

B. N. Singer

[Glenn McInnes]

Good Morning Mr Singer


Here is one assault wrapper with the blue/grey support material. The other is a black wrapper but it is on a full manniquin and I would have to tear down my display to get at it.

Glenn

[Glenn McInnes]

support/bias material

[B. N. Singer]

Good Morning Mr Singer


Here is one assault wrapper with the blue/grey support material. The other is a black wrapper but it is on a full manniquin and I would have to tear down my display to get at it.

Glenn

Good morning Glenn,

On behalf of myself and the other forum members, thank you for sharing your nice jacket with us. A nice example of material "color variation" can be seen.

A deep navy blue support material has also been encountered and might easily be dismissed by many as being a reproduction.


B. N. Singer

[TONY Q.W.]

A deep navy blue support material has also been encountered and might easily be dismissed my many as being a reproduction.


B. N. Singer

Very true Mr. Singer, this deep navy blue matterial is also evident in regular Heer field tunics. Two jackets of mine have this particular color support material (on back of the collar).

[djpool]

Heres another example of bias material in other than white.In this case its black. To view the whole tunic go to this thread-

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.net/foru...ad.php?t=28584

regards Jim

[Michael Everett]

Heres another example of bias material in other than white.In this case its black. To view the whole tunic go to this thread-

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.net/foru...ad.php?t=28584

regards Jim

Jim,

Good to see your still collecting! The EURO has killed the bargains in Germany!

Pictures of my wrapper and bias.


MIKE

[Michael Everett]

Strap

Picture

[djpool]

Jim,

Good to see your still collecting! The EURO has killed the bargains in Germany!

Pictures of my wrapper and bias.


MIKE

hi Mike,

Once its in your blood you can't stop. Of course lack of space and high prices has slowed down my acquisitions quite a bit. I just focus on select items.

I see your still going for mint which has to be hard on the wallet these days. Of course your taste is impeccable, you have a great collection.The wraps a beauty! good hunting! Jim