DAK tropical set of signals unteroffizier shoulder straps ? or are they ??

[Tim O'Keefe]

This set of mismatched DAK straps arrived today. They were suppose to be signals but are they ?
Do you think they were used together as a pair during the War ? The age old question signals yellow or recon gold ?
From the photos also thought the wool backing was grey but it is the early brown wool. Have added a DAK recon feldwebel to compare with ?

Would like to to hear everyone's comments as always. as to the piping or straps themselves ?

[Schulterklappen]

Well, it is not "Midnight at the Oasis" and my monitor sees Zitron Gelb on the Paar. Nice straps!

[OSS]

The mismatched pair are signals to my eyes.

[pauke]

Citrus. The added single even looks lemon to me.

[GAMS1]

I see them with a faded golden yellow piping ... Zitronengelb is a lot lighter and more crispy in colour .
Nick

[pauke]

Okay Tim, to help solve the question I got out a selection of tropical signals straps topped with one cavalry/recon and a selection of continental signals straps topped with a cav/recon, and, using the exact SAME LIGHTING used over the African desert, made this image. Copied your white towel as well.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thank you gentleman for your expertise. When in hand the longer of the two straps piping matches the feldwebel exactly, while the more worn strap could be signals.
Have attached a couple more photos for comparison. First is a tropical overcoat strap with signals piping. Thanks Glen
Then an image with the coat strap and the feldwebel strap which does show the difference better than my first impression above.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Okay Tim, to help solve the question I got out a selection of tropical signals straps topped with one cavalry/recon and a selection of continental signals straps topped with a cav/recon, and, using the exact SAME LIGHTING used over the African desert, made this image. Copied your white towel as well.

Thanks Gary

That is a great comparison and the recon clearly stand out compared to the brighter signals. Your lighting is suburb and the white towel really brings out the contrast unlike my inability to capture the correct shade of the straps.

[90th Light]

Have been down this road with the tropical M40 that I posted in this thread;

https://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/for...ellow-soutache

It was sold to me as a tropical M40 with a signals soutache original and factory sewn. However when I got it in hand, the yellow was slightly darker than the signal yellows that I compared it with. Thus I floated the possibility of it being a faded recon yellow. To test this possibility, I was lucky to be able to let some other collectors handle it and compare with their beyond doubt recon yellow items in their collections. The conclusion was an over-whelming yes to it being a faded recon yellow.

It has been my observation, that yellows worn in Afrika seen to fade with sun, wear and soiling to a lighter shade of yellow. My topical M40 is a good example of what recon yellow can do but I also have signal shoulder straps that have faded to an almost white shade. It is only by pulling back the cloth and looking at an un-faded part of the piping that you can determine the true original colour of the piping. When I get a chance I will dig out my straps and make an image or two to show what I am saying.

In the meantime, here are some images of the comparison of recon yellow with signal yellow from the linked thread. Of course getting the exact accurate hue of colour is always difficult in a photo and what one sees can vary slighty from one computer monitor to the next computer monitor,

Chris

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Chris

Thanks for the thread link and your signals v recon/kav color shades demonstration. The cap is a lucky find. Would say your photos of the two M40's show the difference the best. Do you think the same situation for these straps as your M40 ?

Here are a couple more attempts to show the difference from the signals coat strap and these three. A friend of mine was just over and he thought all three straps are the same shade. Did not have a lemon yellow strap to compare with.

thanks

Tim

[Mark Gibson]

Tim, I could sit here wondering all day what shade of yellow they are but am leaning towards signals (that's how they look on screen to me). Whatever they are there is one thing that is certain, they are very nice originals with just the right wear. Well done on obtaining these.

Mark

[Mark Gibson]

You're certainly building up a nice collection of straps. As you know I sold many a few years ago but still have a large hoard of predominantly panzer and panzer grenadier, which has always been my main focus.

Mark

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Mark

Thanks for your thoughts. I have sat here for three days now going over this and still not 100% sure of anything. When in hand they match the Feldwebel strap which was declared a gold recon/kav by everyone in a thread on it couple years back. 90thLt makes a very good point. When you consider the sun fading to the top of the strap, & that the piping has also faded to an extent for the same period. & that the lemon yellow of signals fades to a lighter shade to almost white that would imply these are faded gold as Nick mentions ? /

[Tim O'Keefe]

You're certainly building up a nice collection of straps. As you know I sold many a few years ago but still have a large hoard of predominantly panzer and panzer grenadier, which has always been my main focus.

Mark

Really appreciated Mark as your collection of DAK straps is still one of the best in the world
& Your right all that really matters is that the pair have seen it in Afrika.


It's coming along but still pretty weak.
Did manage to get one of your old sets thanks to a good friend here on the WAF.

As always all comments welcome ?

Heia Safari !

Tim

[Mark Gibson]

That's a very nice selection covering a number of branches Tim. The early flak straps are exceptional but they paid for a pair of 1940 dated 1st pattern short boots; I had to do it.

Regards

Mark